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I just bought my first boat, C&C hull number 167 (I think). Mk one, but with Mk two high aspect rudder. Rudder seems very hard to move even though the boat has only been on the hard for less than 2 years. Anyone have any suggestions? If anyone is familiar with "Second Wind", kept on the lower western shore of the Chesapeake for the last 20 years I would love to learn all I can about her.
Chris Ferrier
Chriswheat Second Wind
Chesapeake Bay MD
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The worst case scenario is, of course, a bent rudder shaft. However, this is very unlikely. I am assuming that your boat is currently in the water, so inspection of the shaft will have to wait until the boat comes out. At that time, I would recommend pulling the rudder anyways, if only to give the shaft and the shaft tube a good cleaning.
In the meantime, have you tried adding extra grease? After a couple of years on the hard, the grease which lubricates the shaft so that it can rotate inside the shaft tube may have dried out and hardened. There should be a grease cup on the side of the shaft tube, under the cockpit sole. Mine is on the starboard side. This cup is essentially the same as the one on your engine's water pump. Remove the cup, fill it with a good waterproof grease (like water pump grease) and then screw it down again. This will force new grease into the shaft tube around the rudder post. When you finally haul out, pull the rudder and clean both rudder post and shaft tube, remember to coat the post with a good layer of this waterproof grease before reinstalling the rudder. Not only does the grease lubricate the shaft, it also helps to prevent water from coming up the shaft into the bilge in the case of a following sea.
Welcome to the world of C&C ownership. Good luck and fair winds,
Marcus
Thanks Marcus! I'll check it out this weekend.
Chriswheat Second Wind
Chesapeake Bay MD
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Hello,
I noticed your comments to another guest in regards to a sticky rudder. I hit a submerged log in the Ottawa River this weekend and did bend my rudder post. Ever so slightly but enough to interfer and lock up the rudder completely.
I am unable to find any technical information about rudder removal and I dont know if straightening is an option. Any help information is appreciated. I also have a Edson wheel assembly installed.
So far I have reviewed the "Black Arts" section and found the article on rebuilding a rudder (which does not cover removal and re-installation aspects).
We don’t have information on removal of a rudder because removing a tiller-steered rudder is so straightforward (tiller off, pull two bolts and - thud - it’s out). Perhaps someone else can talk you through removal of Edson gear, then you can photograph and describe the process of removing a wheel-steered rudder for us. One pointer - once out of the water, the boat must be positioned where you can dig at least a 1 1/2-foot-deep hole under the rudder or the job must be done in the slings.
Until you are hauled, any opinions on the state of your rudder are necessarily conjectures. Once you're out of the water, you can start assessing damage. The glass may be wrecked at the point of impact or not, but even if it looks okay, the foil (glass and foam) will in all likelihood have to be removed from the post if it's to be straightened.
Is it safe to straighten a post that might come under high loads? Someone with more knowledge of metal will have to answer that. A new one might be the safer option.
There may be other opinions, but I suspect this is an insurance job. A 27 at our club bent its rudder post last fall. Unfortunately I can't tell you how bad the bend was, but as with your boat, the boat was not steerable; a completely new rudder was required.
Fortunately, you are near a first-class supplier. Phil's Foils in Ottawa (see Contacts above) made the fellow mentioned above a beautiful and very light rudder with new post for C$2,500.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Last edited by (2007-09-10 00:06:27)
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Offline
I have had the dubious privilege of removing a rudder which has Edson steering. Doing this job will undoubtedly improve your skills as a contortionist, but otherwise is not that difficult. As always, it helps to have a sailing buddy or two work with you.
You will need to deal with 6 bolts on your rudder quadrant and two hex screws at the head of the rudder post. When you crawl under your cockpit and look at the quadrant from one side, you will see two bolts where the casting of the quadrant surrounds the rudder post. Halfway across the surface of the quadrant is a long bolt sticking out of a recess in the surface of the quadrant, pointing towards the bow. This bolt anchors and tensions one of the steering cables. The layout should be exactly the same on the other side of the quadrant.
Start by releasing some of the tension on the steering cables by slacking the cable tension bolt by 1/2-inch to an inch. You can then undo the bolts which fasten the quadrant to the rudder post. It is not necessary to remove them, just slacken them so that the two halves of the quadrant can separate slightly. In order to get the halves of the quadrant to separate, you will need to slacken the bolts on both sides. Once the quadrant is released from the post, it should be free to slide down and rest on the top of the rudder tube where the post comes up through the hull. The final step in removal is to make sure that the rudder is supported from below by blocks. Go into the cockpit and slacken the hex screws in the stainless collar at the top of the rudder post. These may well be frozen in position and require some force in order to free them up. Try penetrating oil and heat to see if that will help. Once you remove the stainless collar, there should be a nylon or teflon washer underneath. Put the collar and the washer in a safe place! The rudder should now be free to slide down and out of the rudder shaft hole. Bear in mind David's warning about having a hole underneath the rudder, or you will not have enough clearance to get it out.
Reinstallation is a reverse process. Make sure that you grease up the lower portion of the rudder post, which is held in the shaft hole, with a good waterproof grease before you slide it back in. Do not put grease on the upper part of the shaft or the steering quadrant will have a problem gripping the shaft tightly enough. You will need someone down in the locker to guide the quadrant back over the rudder post as it comes up the shaft hole. It is probably a good idea to take this opportunity to put a little extra grease on the steering cables while they are not yet under tension. Align the rudder directly aft and then tighten up the quadrant bolts that bind the quadrant to the shaft. Make sure that the quadrant is up off of the shaft hole and high enough that the tab on the front of the quadrant will bump up against the rudder stops that stick down from the plate on the underside of the cockpit sole. Also make sure that the quadrant is not so high up that it gouges the underside of the cockpit sole. Remember to use Loc-Tite (or the equivalent) when you put the allen-head screws back into the stainless collar. This will help to minimize future seizing from corrosion, as well as protecting you from having them work loose. The final step is to restore the tension on the steering cable. You will need to tighten the bolt until the cables are taut enough that they will not be able to jump off of the idler wheels which guide them from the pedestal to the quadrant. By adjusting the amount which you take up on each tension bolt, you can fine-tune the alignment of the king spoke on your steering wheel. Once the steering is back together, unscrew the grease cup which you should find on the starboard side of the shaft tube, pack it with fresh waterproof grease and screw it down hard, forcing more grease in around the rudder post. Not only does this lubricate the post, it stops water from slopping in when there are following seas.
Good luck and don't hesitate to come back with any questions.
Marcus,
Carriden, Hull #847
[An excellent explanation. If I didn't know how closely working back there resembles being poured head-first into a funnel, it almost sounds like an enjoyable task. Should you get a chance to photograph this assembly at some time in the future, I'd love to add this to Black Arts. - Admin]
Last edited by (2007-09-10 05:16:49)
Marcus,
Thanks for that great explanation. I downloaded the Edson guide and I will check to see if I can correlate with some of the pictures.
If I end up taking some pictures perhaps we can document for the Black Arts section.
Thanks again to everyone for their support.
Bjarki (Carvalla MIII )
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