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I have a frozen valve and tried to replace it. Failed, the valve won't budge off the through-hull. On the outside of the hull there is no through hull fitting visible. It looks like it was glassed over. The through hull for the head is standard and visible on teh outside of the hull. I was advised not to try and free the valve with heat - a torch would be too close to the glass. Does anyone know how to remove the old one to replace the through hull and valve to the sink (bad pun n'est pas)? Has anyone done it?
John Dallas - Weather or Not - [address deleted]
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Last edited by (2009-11-03 00:10:18)
John & Donna Dallas - Weather or Not ;
<A href="mailto:jedlls@sympatico.ca">jedlls@sympatico.ca</A>
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Hi John. I replaced all of the thru-hulls and valves on my Mk III last year and found that I had similar problems. Of the six valves which I removed and replaced, I could only unscrew two of them. The rest had to be cut off. The technique which worked for me was to use a cutting disk on a rotary tool (eg. Dremel). With the cutting disk, I would cut around the threaded shaft of the thru-hull, between the hull and the valve. The brass of the thru-hulls was fairly easy to cut, but the positions are always awkward.
Once the valve had been cut off, I sometimes had to bivalve the nut on the inside of the hull which holds the thru-hull itself fast. I would use the same cutting wheel to cut the nut in two or more locations around its circumference, then use a honking great screwdrive to pry the pieces apart and away from the shaft of the thru-hull. Once the nut is off of the threaded shaft, the rest of the thru-hull was easy to remove.
Before you do all of this damage, have you been persistent about freeing the valve? If you can get the valve working through repeated applications of penetrating oil, then you can probably work past it to punch out whatever material is sealing up your thru-hull. I would want to be convinced that the valve is beyond saving before I cut it out.
Good luck and bring some liniment for contorted muscles.Marcus from Carriden
Mk III, Hull #847
Last edited by (2007-03-13 15:32:24)
Marcus Opitz,
Formerly from Carriden, Mk III, Hull #847,
now skippering "Everdina," a 1975 Ontario 32
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Your advisor is right about not using a torch down below, though my primary concern would be dropping it and not being able to pick it up because of being in such a contorted position.
I have used heat to loosen things, but I've used an electrical paint stripper gun, which apparently gets up to 300 - 350 degrees -- not as hot as a torch but hot enough to loosen many fastenings. The key to using one of these near the hull or anything else that might be damaged by heat is to cover anything you want to protect with aluminum foil. shiny side out. A lot of the heat will be reflected but as aluminum is such a good conductor, any heat absorbed by the foil will be diffused through the sheet.
Brass and bronze expand very fast when heated; preheat the heat gun, get it right on the threads for a minute and try loosening again. I expect you will find that any threadlocking compound has been softened and that the valve body has expanded that tiny bit that lets you loosen it.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
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I understand the procedure you described. One question though is that the through hull is not apparent on the outside of the hull. Most of the through hulls on the 27 show the flange on the outside of the hull. On this one though, all that appears on the outside of the hull is a hole in the fibreglass. I suspect the outside hole through the hull was countersunk, then the flange affixed to the through-hull, next the flange on the outside of the hull was glassed over. Following the technique you described with a Drumel would not release the flange. It would have to be dug out by guess with progressively larger drill holes from the outside and perfectly concentic to the centre of the hole... or is there an easier way? Or am I missing something?
John - Weather or Not
Hello again John. I would be very surprised if your outside flange was indeed glassed over. When C&C moulded the hulls, the mould included a recess for each regular through-hull. The through-hulls which they used at the time included a broad, flat flange about 1/8-inch to 3/16-inch thick. The outer diameter of the flange was easily three times the diameter of the through-hull opening. Typically, this flange would sit "flush" with the hull in its recess and then the gap around the outside of the flange would be blended into the hull using filler, until the only visible aspect of the through-hull would be the hole. Interestingly, C&C had bedded my through-hulls with the same grey butyl tape that they used on my hull-deck joint, and they had not leaked. Unless there is an actual bulge on the hull around the through-hull, this is likely the situation with your fitting. On my boat, the only exception to this style of mounting was my engine intake, which had a "mushroom" head on the outside of the hull.
However, I much prefer the idea of using a heat gun to work on the threaded joint of the valve and through-hull and I wish that I had thought of it when I was removing my through-hulls. If the heat can loosen the joint sufficiently, then you can simply remove the valve body and replace or repair the valve (replacement with a ball valve would be better). There was a sealant on the threads of my valves (possibly plumber's putty) and that presumably was why four of them would not simply unscrew.
By the way, when you start working on unscrewing the valve body, it is likely that the through-hull itself will rotate slightly, breaking free of any filler or sealant around its edges. If this does in fact happen, then it should reveal if your through-hull is mounted as I described above.
Good luck, and keep us posted.
Marcus from Carriden
Inside the through-hull opening, you'll see two tabs or raised areas. If you can engage these with a piece of metal (sometimes the handle of a wrench will do) and hold it immobile against the turning force being applied to the valve body, you can avoid breaking the seal between the through-hull and the hull, and save yourself a bit of work.
This may, on the other hand, be a non-issue, depending on whether the threads on your new valve match those of the original through-hull.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Last edited by (2007-03-18 06:30:06)
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
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Thank you Dave and Marcu. The through hull was first sealed with a plastic bag then filled to below the gate valve with 5/30 and then topped with Liquid wrench in Nov. In April I'll wrap the valve body with a micowave heated pad and pack ice on the handle and try. If it doesn't go, I'll add a day to the chore list I guess? I'll see you on the race course. Been out of sailing for 20 years and got the fever bad for May to arrive.
John
John & Donna Dallas - Weather or Not ;
<A href="mailto:jedlls@sympatico.ca">jedlls@sympatico.ca</A>
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It is times like this that you would like to have a new boat and everything works....before you go cutting and swearing...... try a good brand of pentetrating liquids.... from dealing with old tractors, the two that work the best are KROIL, I can get it at my local marine hardware store, and the other is PB Blaster. Both of these products will penetrate the most stubborn, stuck thing..... apply it and then tap with a small hammer to get the stuff flowing into the crevices... usually, if left over night you can get things to move.
Other than that, the dremel cutting approach seems best.
Good Luck,
"IRIS"
1975 C&C 27 MKlll
Hull #453
Kittery Point, Maine
[A while back, someone suggested 3M Spray Penetrant could even loosen Dick Cheney's grip on power. Unfortunately, many of these wonder products aren't available in Canada. - Admin]
Last edited by (2007-03-23 00:09:45)
Yipeeeee! Spring has sprung. Before attacking the thru-hull with a drumel, I took once last kick at the can (valve) with a rubber mallet, (It sat all winter with 5/30 to just below the valve gate, and Release-It floated to cover the seized area). It moved! I shouted! It worked free with a 6" extension on the valve handle! If it does not free up completely during a summer's use, I'll use the Dumel cutting wheel this fall after haul out. Thank you for your help and I'll see you all on the lake. (My work took me into Extrudex in Vaughn Ontario and they have molds for various aluminum mast/boom profiles. If you just want a mast without fittings, rigging and without anodizing; this might be a very low cost source. They run one-offs and were making a 65' mast-extrusion while I was there - less than an hours work.)
John - Weather or Not
John & Donna Dallas - Weather or Not ;
<A href="mailto:jedlls@sympatico.ca">jedlls@sympatico.ca</A>
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