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Just purchased a 27 MkIII. Currently the boat is on 4 Jack stands. Is this correct (I hope so) or should the boat be on a cradle? If so where can I get one? Make one? Cheers, Dean.
Dean M Baldwin
Morgan "D"
Mark III - Hull 516
North Sydney, N.S.
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The keel shape pretty well mandates a cradle; the boat simply wasn't designed for jackstand support. In addition to adjustable pads at each corner, I'd suggest a fifth pad on the front crossbar to provide additional support forward of the keel. Some even have a sixth pad on the rear crossbar. I think there's a place called the Cradle Shop in the Toronto area which has patterns for folding cradles and I'd imagine you'll find fabricators in any good-sized city. If that's not a practicable option and you're a good welder with access to steel, I don't think it would be hard to fabricate a cradle. I'd be happy to provide dimensions and digital pix of my Mark III's cradle tomorrow or Thursday.
Ken Pole
Santiva
Ottawa
[Marine Cradle Shop is: http://www.yachtsales.com/trailers/mcs/cradles.html - Admin]
Last edited by (2005-08-30 11:50:45)
Ken Pole, Ottawa
1975 Mark III Santiva
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Thanks, I'd appreciate that, (the pics). As for the cradle are we talking about the half/moon type or the pads type? Dean
Dean M Baldwin
Morgan "D"
Mark III - Hull 516
North Sydney, N.S.
Offline
Pads. Much handier for bottom painting in that you can let one down to paint while the others handle the load.
Ken Pole
Santiva
Ottawa
Ken Pole, Ottawa
1975 Mark III Santiva
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Forgot to ask for your e-mail address so that I can send you pix.
Ken Pole
Santiva
Ottawa
Ken Pole, Ottawa
1975 Mark III Santiva
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Hyperion, owned by Ralph & Inga Ainslie, is another 27 at your club (see The Fleet). What do they use?
Personally, I don't like jackstands but they're safe enough if you're careful with them. If you continue to use them, you probably should get a fifth one to provide support at the forward end of the keel (as is suggested in the post on cradles). You can deal with the curvature at the bottom of the keel by careful blocking.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
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Sorry about that;
bow_man20 (at) hotmail.com
(address modified by Admin to prevent harvesting by 'bots).
Dean
Last edited by (2005-08-31 23:33:03)
Dean M Baldwin
Morgan "D"
Mark III - Hull 516
North Sydney, N.S.
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I have heard that C&C 27's should when on a cradle should not have any appreciable amount of weight supported by the keel, that the structure was not designed to be loaded in this way. Can anybody verify this bit of lore?
My cradle, origin unknown, is a sturdy steel structure with full, form fitting saddles that support the boat fore and aft of the keel in the area where there the only two major bulkheads are located. There is a length of channel iron welded to the cradle to receive the keel and center the boat. However, it appears that the cradle is built so that if when it is supported at the for corners it will deflect if loaded by the keel. Perhaps I attribute too much forthought to the cradle designer but has anybody ever heard of this concept?
Tom Graham
Monk
C&C 27 MK III 1976
Shelburne, VT
>C&C 27's ... on a cradle should not have any appreciable amount of weight supported by the keel...
What - the boat is going to start drooping around the keel like one of Salvador Dali's watches? Or snap like a breadstick? Heaven save us from the kind of yacht club bar-flies who sold you this one.
Now this is just my opinion, but I believe that if you consider the stresses applied during normal sailing (boat heeled to the rail, maximum leverage applied by the keel to the hull structure, etc.), it's plain that just sitting there isn't likely to do much harm.
What may be more of an issue is unequal loading. The boat's natural element supports the entire hull equally and evenly. On a cradle, things are different, whether you're supporting it at the bulkheads or not. My own boat changed shape rather significantly when the engine was out one winter, so I can easily believe that unequal loading could do the same (my boat changed back once launched, but I did hear of a 30 that was permanently deformed by bad storage over a couple of years).
For myself, I prefer to support the keel's weight fully on the ground (or to be picky about the description, I prefer to support the cradle's keel beams fully on the ground). I wind the pads up as tight as possible against the hull, but I suspect they are carrying merely a large portion of the hull weight, rather than all of it. The remainder is being supported by the keel, and I've seen no negative effects.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
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Way back in '84 I aquired my boat and it came with C & C's wooden "shipping" cradle (then already 5 years old). A few years later when the cradle began to deteriorate a bit, I talked to someone at C & C about repairing/replacing it and I asked specifically about supporting or not supporting the boat on its keel. The answer I got then was that the design of the original shipping cradle was such that when the boat was lowered in to it, the forward end of the keel contacted the wooden transverse beam, the boat then slid back and down, stopping with the interior bulkheads on top of the cradle's two saddles which carried part of the weight; the other part being borne by the transverse beam against the forward edge of the keel. The explanation I got was that the boat would "find its own weight distribution" in this type of cradle. At that time, and again later, I replaced the rotted portions of the wood keeping the same design.
When our Yacht club outlawed wooden cradles and mandated folding steel cradles , I built a metal cradle which retained the two original 'saddles' and also incorporated a fold-away angled keel support with the same intention of supporting the boat partially on the keel; letting the boat find its own distribution as it settles in for its "winter nap".(October 21st here )
Clare Jordan
Clare:
Bear in mind that the C&C wood cradle was first and foremost a shipping cradle, designed very much with the intention of containing the boat as it was transported over the road to its destination. Therefore, it needed to be able to "re-centre" the boat constantly as the truck bumped along at highway speeds. A yard cradle doesn't need to do that, so we can trade away some of the support for sanding-&-painting access to the bottom.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
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According to the users manual supplied with my C&C 27 MKIII the boat should be stored so that only about 60% of the weight of the boat is supported by the keel.
Hi Wayne and others.
When I read your note it brought that 60% number back to me-- That's the figure that was given to me by C & C when I checked with them. Apparently. in the original shipping cradle (which everyone universally used as a storage cradle for years) , the transverse beam carries about 60% of the weight before the two saddles pick up the remainder. That's why I stuck to using those saddles and the transverse beam idea when I built the steel cradle.
Clare Jordan
<U>SAIL FOR SALE </U>_
#2 Genoa for 27' Mk.111 by North Sails . Tri-radial cut, Norlam fabric, built 1998-- good shape . Window, tell-tales and draught stripe. Stitching etc. checked ;2001/2002 . #6 Luff tape .
Replacement Genoa is on order for 2004 racing season but there's some cruising years left in this one -$ 550 asking price. phone 613 498-2029 or e-mail <A href="mailto:bosco@ripnet.com">bosco@ripnet.com</A> <img src="emoticons/icon_frown.gif">Brockville)
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just thought i would log in so you can see my profile, Can I get a copy of the dimensions for the cradle. I need to build something to help support my Mark I on the Tidal Grid at the end of the month.
Last edited by (2006-05-04 05:57:13)
When all 27's were shipped from the factory here in Niagara ,they were in fact in the wooden shipping cradle as noted by others. The 2 bunks were designed to align exactly with the 2 main bulkheads with the 4x4 fir cross piece approximately 1 foot in front of the back edge of the keel. When the boats were placed in their shipping cradles, the keel did not rest solidly on the cross beam. Before driving down the road piece's of plywood wedges were drivin in between the keel and the cross beam before leaving the factory. When the boats would arrive in B.C. or wherever, many times the wedge [ or wedges ] where missing and a groove had been cut by the keel into the cross beam. So, the bunk style cradle did in fact carry all the load of the boat on it's own bulkheads. This "shipping cradle" as labelled by the factory was stated as such to not make C&C libel for any problems that might have arised after delivering the boat to the new owner. We kept Yogi in this original " shipping cradle" for years as many others have with no problems unless you waited too long for the rot to appear from within, and then look out !!!
We had a folding steel cradle with 6 pads fabricated over 20 years ago. Three pads on the forward bulkhead and three on the aft exactly at the same distance as the original wooden bunks. Our yard personnel who have handled these boats [ and many other C&C's] since birth here in Niagara always berthed them the same way in this style of cradle.
They bring the boat down onto it's keel until it's just touching, then they crank your pads up tight to the hull and then they take the remainder of the weight off the straps. We always place a piece of plywood under the keel before this happens , but many others don't [personal preference]. So yes, I would guess that the 60 % figure is about right as mentioned by others. We've not experienced any problems with this method nor seen any with all the C&C's being handled and stored in this fashion here. However, you must ensure that the pads do in fact align with the bulkheads or you will punch through the hull. Our staff have placed sticky " cradle" markers on the toe rails of all boats in the yard in alignment with their bulkheads to allow for quick and safe handling and storage. Many boats have been lifted and moved even by a forklift in it's metal cradle with no effect on the hull.
I have seen a few trailers also equipped with the three pad setup and they are handled the same way with no problem.
Good luck with your cradle and make sure you use a good welder !!!
Cheers-"Yogi Bear"
Desicion made. Home made by an excellent welder using the support under the two bulkheads. See the final product under the "Fleet" tab. Works great!
Dean M Baldwin
Morgan "D"
Mark III - Hull 516
Halifax, N.S.
Dean M Baldwin
Morgan "D"
Mark III - Hull 516
North Sydney, N.S.
Offline
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