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Has anyone had any experience with removing old gate valves on your scuppers' thru-hulls. I want to replace them with ball valves, but they won't move. I'm afraid I'm going to have to cut the thru-hull and then remove the thru-hull. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Scalliwag27
I assume when you say scuppers you are referring the cockpit drains? or do some 27's have scupper drains out along the toerail?
A couple of years ago I replaced the gate valves on my cockpit drains but it required quite a bit of work. The old gate valves have tappered thread on them, and the thru hull fitting had straight tread, that mixed with 25 years of sailing meant that getting them apart was very difficult. I finally came to the conclusion that if I applied sufficient force to separate them, I was just as likely to break the seal between the thru hull fitting and the hull. With the boat on the hard, I did just that with an 18" pipe wrench and sure enough the thru hull came loose. What I ended up doing was backing off the thru hull nut located inside the hull, just far enough to get a hack saw between it and the hull. Then I cut through the thru hull, pushed the one end out the bottom of the boat, and the other end still attached to the gate valve. This required me to replace both the thru hull and the valve but it was about time for both any way, and this way I could be confident in the seal between the thru hull fitting and the hull.
This message could go on all day. If you'd like all the details maybe contact me directly and I'll let you know how I finished it up.
Chris Phippen, cphippen@utilitieskingston.com
I took a tailpiece off an above-water through-hull; it had some sort of pipe dope on the through-hull/tailpiece joint that had hardened into cement. I got it apart by heating the tailpiece with a heat gun, fortunately without loosening the through-hull. I was able to hold the through-hull with a pair of pliers that had hard plastic faces on the gripping surface, so I didn't wreck the threads.
If you go this route, cover everything nearby with aluminum foil to protect it from the heat.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
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Unfortunately, I have too much experience with this one! For over 10 years I helped an organization maintain 20+ boats and I certainly learned a few lessons along the way. One was don't skimp on thru-hulls!
I did mine on Serendipity (MK I) a couple of years ago. If the valves are that shot, just count on having to break the seal on the thru-hull during the removal process. As a minimum reseating them if you do not have to replace them. Even if you get a good bite on the thru-hull with a long cheater bar and detect no movement, you won't know if you were successful in keeping the seal until the boat goes back in the water. On Serendipity I had to hacksaw through the bottom of the valve and thru-hull, then grind thru the remainer of the valve before I could get to the locking nut.
Another thought is just go to Marlon for both thruhull and ball valves. The traditionalists won't like this, but you do eliminate corrosion, and if you do something to break the marlon - the bronze would have broken or bent anyway and lost the seal.
Warren Smith
Serendipity
Galveston Bay, Texas
Does anyone have any advice on the merits of Marlon vs. bronze thruhulls and seacocks?
Scalliwag27
I've no personal experience with Marelon seacocks but am contemplating replacement of my 1975 gate valves in the spring. When I ask around, I find opinion divided: some say stick with bronze because plastic won't stand up; others are equally insistent that Marlon has proven the naysayers wrong for more than a decade. It's worth noting that Saga's Bob Perry-designed 43 uses Marelon seacocks, as did later iterations of the CS36. A search of Practical Sailor uncovered several items about Marelon seacocks dating back to the mid-90s. Responding to one subscriber's questions about a broken handle, PS observed in its Nov. 1/2000 issue that the handles of small Marelon seacocks can sometimes fail. "We have not seen this problem with seacocks larger than 1". What we think happens is tht because all plastic is slightly hydroscopic, the ball swells slightly and becomes hard to turn in its seat. In small seacocks, the arm that connects the handle to the ball isn't strong eough to withstand the torque of the handle turning, and snaps." In its Nov. 15/2002 issue, PS quoted Forespar (<A href="http://www.forespar.com">www.forespar.com</A>) on the importance of lubricating twice a year as well as regular activation. Lubrication instructions were: close valve, remove hose from tailpipe, swab waterproof grease generously on the ball, and re-attach hose, checking for fatigue and rusted clamps. Hope this is useful.
When reading the following, bear in mind that either choice will be far superior to the brass through-hulls and gate valves fitted on most production recreational vessels. The key problem with brass is that it loses its zinc over time and becomes quite brittle, even in fresh water. For this reason, if you're thinking of replacing the gate valves, you will do well to replace the whole assembly.
Bronze seacocks are heavy, costly (about 2x to 3x the price of Marelon, which is one of the reasons that even upper-level builders have gone to Marelon now), can corrode and require more maintenance than Marelon. They are tougher than Marelon.
Marelon is lighter, less expensive and requires less maintenance. They can be broken, both the handle and the body (though breaking the body takes some work).
If you're going to get the full safety benefit of a seacock, you need not a ball valve that screws on to the end of a through-hull, but an integrated assembly in which the through-hull screws through the hull into a cock body that is itself held in place by machine screws. You can see the difference by looking at the pictures of ball valves and seacocks provided on the Forespar site mentioned in the earlier post.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
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Two points I'll add to my earlier comments:
Some "thru hulls" (mushroom type) do not have the holes in the base to attach to the hull with screws. These prevent the thru-hull from turning and breaking the seal; and also add strength to the whole assembly. On Serendipity I had to add a thick backing plate (glassed to the hull) to upgrade to a proper thruhulls.
Before you refer to Marelon (I spelled it correctly this time) as "plastic" (which seems to denote inferior strength), you may want to check the following link: <A href="http://www.forespar.com/resources/tips/MarelonGen.htm">http://www.forespar.com/resources/tips/MarelonGen.htm</A> . Also, you may recall we are all sailing around in glass-fiber reinforced plastic boats that don't corrode and seem to last virtually forever!
Warren Smith
Serendipity
Galveston Bay, Texas
I once owned a Catalina with Marelon thruhulls and never had a moments problem with them. When purchasing the boat the surveyor I use said they are not an issue for concern. Mike M
SV Pura Vida
#375
Galveston Bay
Mike M
SV Wind Horse
#375
Galveston, Tx
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