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We're in the market for a new racing #1 and were wondering what others are buying in terms of racing sails? What designs (cut, construction, material) are people using, and from what lofts? Is anybody using dacron (specifically number 1) for racing. What are people paying for their sails, and do those prices include off-season discounts? We'd also be interested in hearing from any U.S. boats, or from people who might have ordered sails from overseas. We're specifically interested in a #1, but also interested in all sails. Please specify which Mark in your response. Thanks!
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The four top boats in our club (Mk III's and a IV) use (in alphabetical order):
Bay Sails Haarstick
Evolution
Sobstad
Performance
All are laminate sails with the exception of Towser's Dacron #2 and main (selected for the greater resistance to damage in the case of the #2 and the malleability of Dacron in the case of the main). As to construction, they all use what are in effect their makers' signature methods, which are probably more accurately learned from the makers' web sites rather than my memory. Again, I won't quote prices from memory or general discussion, but my sense is that they're all in a very small ballpark.
Significantly, three of these use locally made sails. The Sobstad suit was almost 2 years late because of turmoil in the east Asian loft where they were to be made, followed by turmoil in the loft to which the order was transferred. The owner loves those sails but I expect he'll be looking for a local loft after that experience.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
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What type of boat are you buying for?
Barry Oasis, 1987 Mk V
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Tit for tat. If you want information, give information. Where are you? What do you sail? What's the competitive situation? Level? PHRF? And that's just for starters. The more people know about your situation, the better they can respond. The more information we share, the more we are a community, rather than vague addresses and pseudonyms in cyberspace.
- Admin
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Michael, your request is impossible to answer until you tell us where you are and the Mark of the boat you own or are thinking of buying. In the GTA there are many excellent sailmakers, both large and small, and I believe that all of them would need to visit your boat in order to take some measurements, understand your genoa tracks, your head stay and furling system, and talk to you about your sailing needs. At that point you might know the cost.
Your choice will be far more limited if you are sailing in an area which cannot support a single sailmaker.
There are contributors to this Forum who have decades of experience in the owning and sailing of C&C 27's, and who have bought sails from many sailmakers, both in Canada and elsewhere.. So tell us a bit more about your boat and its location and you might receive some well thought out advise.
Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002
Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002
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Hi michael,
Let me begin with the disclaimer that I’m associated with one of the lofts identified in David’s post above.
In terms of #1 genoas, I’d suggest that the typical 27 owner’s expectations would be best met with a laminate sail. Dacron (actually woven Polyester) is still an effective material for mainsails and special purpose foresails, but your workhorse genoa really needs the horsepower and grunt of a laminate cloth to maximize efficiencies. In simple terms, laminates offer two main benefits over woven cloth: strength to maintain designed shape longer, and lightness to respond to lighter winds more effectively and reduce weight. They can also be effectively recut after a few seasons to recreate the original design shape. On the down side for laminates, the cost differential is not insignificant, they may have unique handling requirements, and their ultimate lifespan is shorter than woven polyester.
It’s a veritable minefield to compare one loft’s offerings to another. No single product is inherently faster than another, so each owner needs to determine for themselves which construction technique they feel comfortable investing in. Keep in mind there can be issues of durability and longevity when comparing different laminate materials (polyester, Pentex, Aramid [Kevlar], Carbon, etc.) and construction techniques (paneled vs. string sail, crosscut vs. triradial, etc.).
I’ve sailed the Path since 1996 and am on my third suit of sails. We don’t have an aggressive racing schedule i.e. the sails aren’t used nearly as much as some club racers, and I also spend a lot of time racing OPBs (other peoples’ boats), so the sails are kept in very good condition. There’s a wee chance it may have something to do with being in the business that I keep the sails in top shape too!
I just converted to laminate for the mainsail and would probably have stuck with a woven sail with very high quality cloth - the move to laminate was due to trying out some new cloth and promoting our products more than actually feeling it’ll be a better product. We’ll just have to wait and see what the results show!
One of the reasons C&C’s 27 remains a popular boat for racers and cruisers alike is because it’s easy to sail and has a nice fat groove that suits many different sailing styles. In my opinion, what’s more important than “what sail to buy, from whom, and how much” is to establish a trusting and lasting relationship with your sailmaker. The benefits of working in a partnership are more important than which product you end up buying right now. That's been my experience - I started out as a customer of Performance Sails ten years ago before getting involved with the operation in 2005. I am no longer involved in the day-to-day operations of the loft but still help out whenever I can.
Cheers,
Tal
Critical Path
1976 Mk. III #632
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