This Forum is supported by C&C 27 owners like you whose membership in the C&C 27 Association makes possible this Forum and the accompanying site. Thank you, members, for your continuing commitment.
You are not logged in.
Pages: 1
Now that we're sailing and racing, the club needs to give our boat a PHRF rating. I've been asked to pick a base model from the list our club uses. Turns out to be a bit of a head scratcher. Am I right to assume that our 1974 C&C 27 with a mast height of 35 feet and hull number in the 216 to 451 range is a "C&C 27-1 TM"? Here is the information I've summarized from various sources to arrive at that conclusion:
C&C produced four versions of the original 27:
Mark 1 - Generally known as the Mark I. Hulls 1 to 215 were produced from 1970 to 1972.
Mark 1A "Tall Rig" - Generally known as the Mark II. Hulls 216 to 451 produced from late 1972 to 1974.
Mark 2 - Generally known as the Mark III. Hulls 451 to 914 produced from 1974 to 1981.
Mark 3 - Generally known as the Mark IV. Hulls 915 to 984 produced from 1981 to 1982.
See <a href="../../evolution.html">http://www.cc27association.com/evolution.html</a># for details of Marks 1 (I) to 3 (IV).
After production of the Mark 3 (IV) ceased, C&C introduced a completely new boat named the C&C 27; this boat is generally known as the Mark V. See <a href="../../vchange.html">http://www.cc27association.com/vchange.html</a>
I see there are different PHRF ratings in various regions. Here is the list of C&C 27 desginations from the one our club starts with, and what I think they mean: (United States Handicap Racing Fleet <a href="http://offshore.ussailing.org/Assets/Offshore/PHRF/Critical+Dimensions.pdf">http://offshore.ussailing.org/Assets/Offshore/PHRF/Critical+Dimensions.pdf</a> where we had to guess at the two-letter acronyms)
C&C 27-1 IB: Mark I inboard engine.
C&C 27-1 OB: Mark I outboard engine.
C&C 27-1 TM: Mark II tall mast - the Mark 1A?
C&C 27-2 +915: Mark III If 915 is hull number, then this would be Mark 3?
C&C 27-2 <914: Mark III If 914 is hull number, then this would be Mark 2?
C&C 27-3 IB: Mark IV inboard engine
C&C 27-3 OB: Mark IV outboard engine
C&C 27-3 SD: Mark IV shoal draft? What does that mean?
---------------------
1974 Mark II C&C 27
Last edited by (2009-08-07 20:54:52)
---------------------
1974 Mark II C&C 27
Offline
I have noticed that some authorities make no distinction in changes other than the hull. Under that model there are only three c&c 27s. The first include the "short" waterlined marks one and two, the "long" waterline marks three and four, and the completly redesigned mark five. Right now I can not remember where I noticed this model.
Mike M
SV Wind Horse
#375
Galveston, Tx
Last edited by (2009-08-06 17:24:13)
Mike M
SV Wind Horse
#375
Galveston, Tx
Offline
Windyday,
The designations we use in the Assoc are used primarily on Lake Ontario. The ones you cite refer, as C&C did, to the hull design as the primary designator. Your list, with my understanding of it using Assoc terms, would read:
C&C 27-1 IB: Mark I inboard engine [standard Mark I]
C&C 27-1 OB: Mark I inboard engine [standard Mark I with engine removed and replaced by an outboard]
C&C 27-1 TM: Mark II tall mast - the Mark 1A? [standard Mark II (your boat)]
C&C 27-2 +915: Mark III If 915 is hull number, then this would be Mark 3? [hulls #915 and up, a Mark IV]
C&C 27-2 <914: Mark III If 914 is hull number, then this would be Mark 2? [hulls below #915, a Mark III]
C&C 27-3 IB: Mark IV inboard engine [a Mark V with inboard]
C&C 27-3 OB: Mark IV outboard engine [a Mark V with outboard]
C&C 27-3 SD: Mark IV shoal draft? What does that mean? [just what it says, a Mk V with a keel of 3'6" instead of 4'10"]
Mike,
You may have read it here. C&C only really acknowledged the distinction between the Mk I hull (21'0" LWL) and the Mk II (22'10" LWL - though that includes an upper fairing of the rudder that makes the LWL sound longer than it effectively is). To C&C, our Mk II is a I with a taller rig, our Mk III is the first Mk II and our Mk IV is a II with an insignificantly modified J, a bit of hull reshaping and slightly different interior cosmetics (there was discussion of calling it a Landfall 27). What they called our Mk V is anyone's guess (but my guess would be either the Mk III or the MORC 27, which reflects its target).
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Last edited by (2009-08-06 19:56:22)
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Offline
I don't know David. Every time I hit that page, I only look at the photo. Man, are these beautiful boats. Mine looks like the one on the left, with a little more wear. ;-)
Mike M
SV Wind Horse
#375
Galveston, Tx
Mike M
SV Wind Horse
#375
Galveston, Tx
Offline
Thank you. To summarize (is this right?):
USHRF-PHRF: C&C27Assoc; C&COriginal
C&C 27-1 IB: Mark I inboard engine; C&C 1.
C&C 27-1 OB: Mark I outboard engine; C&C 1.
C&C 27-1 TM: Mark II tall mast; C&C 1A.
C&C 27-2 <914: Mark III (914=hull number) C&C 2.
C&C 27-2 +915: Mark IV (915=hull number): C&C 3.
C&C 27-3 IB: Mark V inboard engine; C&C 27.
C&C 27-3 OB: Mark V outboard engine; C&C 27.
C&C 27-3 SD: Mark V shoal draft (keel 3'6" instead of 4'10"); C&C 27.
---------------------
1974 Mark II C&C 27
---------------------
1974 Mark II C&C 27
Offline
Jim,
Re: your summary - Not quite right.
USHRF-PHRF C&C27Assoc C&COriginal
C&C 27-1 IB: Mark I inboard engine; C&C 1.
C&C 27-1 OB: Mark I outboard engine; C&C 1.
C&C 27-1 TM: Mark II tall mast; C&C 1
C&C 27-2 <914: Mark III (914=hull number) C&C 2.
C&C 27-2 +915: Mark IV (915=hull number): C&C 2.
C&C 27-3 IB: Mark V inboard engine; C&C 27 (or maybe Mk 3?)
C&C 27-3 OB: Mark V outboard engine; C&C 27 (or maybe Mk 3?)
C&C 27-3 SD: Mark V shoal draft (3'6" not 4'10"); C&C 27 (or maybe Mk 3?)
<div>I _think_ that's right, but the vagaries of what people call which boat what and when are just that, vague. However, if you look at data like the rig height on the USSailing table, it's easy to figure out which pigeon-hole your boat belongs in.</div>
<div>
Mike,</div>
<div>The photo of the two 27's is new and you can thank Larry Ricci of Options [on the left) for it. It's really lovely, isn't it. Neighbours on the production line and now neighbours on Chesapeake Bay.</div>
<div>
</div>
<div>You might also like this cover from RCYC's house mag, Kwasind. The Assoc secretary's boat is Kat's Paw I.</div>
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Last edited by (2009-08-08 09:01:43)
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Offline
Pages: 1