C&C 27 MK 3 1976

Martin Jubenvile · 2009-05-18 08:14:06

I'm looking to buy a new (to me) boat and was wondering what to look for before purchasing. I already love the boat and i believe it will be a perfect pocket cruiser for the Chessy.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Thanks,

Martin Jubenville

[http://www.cc27association.com/site/view.html
http://www.cc27association.com/fixes/buying.html
- Admin]

Last edited by (2009-05-18 10:05:59)

David Masury · 2009-05-27 21:58:38

Like all boats of this vintage, I would look for areas of soft decks, wiring deficiencies, and general condition of the glass such as cracks and blistering. After that the rest of the stuff is either repairable or replaceble. Fresh water boats are more desireable than salt water ones.

'IRIS'
1975 C&C 27 Mk lll
Hull # 453
Kittery Point, Maine

Thank you for raising the wiring issue, now added to Black Arts' Buying A 27 page. - Admin

Last edited by (2009-05-28 02:22:56)

Martin Jubenvile · 2009-07-07 04:07:27

1977 C&C 27 full keel


I have a couple of questions if you guys don’t mind.



The Ice box:

I have for the life of me no idea how this damn thing drains. I’ve looked everywhere possible for a through hull fitting that has a sea cock on it to drain the ice box to no avail. So we are out sailing and we heal the boat over to about 25 degrees and I hear the bilge pump going. So we go down below for lunch and the floors wet and the coolers empty. So I’m figuring that there is a deep seal trap that empties when the boat is healed to port or possibly starboard also and drains across the floor to the keel sump or when there is enough dynamic pressure on the trap to allow water to pass by. Please tell me this isn’t the way it was designed. It seems to me that running it to a cockpit drain would be way more efficient and wouldn’t get the cabin floor all wet. Am I totally missing something? If I am in fact correct, is there a better way to accomplish this?

Genoa Tracks:

I was looking into removing the Genoa block from the toe rail and installing a set of 6’-0” tracks outside of the shrouds with blocks to allow adjustment while racing. I also planed on installing a set of 4’-0” tracks inside the shrouds for higher winds when I fly the #3 while racing. Is there a way to accomplish this without a complete and total abortion of the existing head liner? My lady says under no circumstances are we going to start cutting up the head liner since we already crew on another boat and this is her cruiser and my cruiser / racer. I think I might be able to accomplish the Genoa tracks outside of the shrouds by installing them so that the bolts are accessible from above that lip that allows access to the deck bolts. Am I screwed as far as the inner tracks go?

Clutches and Cam Cleats:

I want to run everything back to the cockpit for ease of sail trim and handling. What the plan is, to move the winch drums off the mast down where they should be in the first place, mounted to the original cabin roof pads. Then add a couple of Lewmar D2 double clutches in front of each winch drum for the Main, Genoa/jib and spinnaker halyards. That allows us to raise sails from the cockpit as well as use the winch drums for flying the spinnaker in higher winds. So with the headliner issue and the old lady again, will self tapping screws hold in the Balsa core or with there be additional modifications required such as epoxy plugs or as a last resort glassing in some stainless steel and tapping it for the clutch bolts.
I’m also planning to run everything for sail trim back to the cabin top hatch cover enclosure. I was planning on using Ronstan Offshore cam cleats with the gray fairleads for the Cunningham, Vang, outhaul and reefing system I have devised. I was going to install a 10 Ga. Stainless backing plate for the cleats to reinforce the enclosure for the loads that it will see. Since the loads are horizontal coming from turning blocks at the bottom of the mast, I don’t see them as being anything out of the ordinary. Is this a bad idea or has it been done before?

In conclusion, are there any web sites or owner blogs that show how they have upgraded the running rigging on a 27 without taking a sawzall (SP) to the head liner?


Thanks for any and all help and suggestions in advance.

Martin

davidww1 · 2009-07-07 05:44:17

The ice box drains through a hose that runs through the front of the engine space to a pump under the sink that you're supposed to pump into the sink. Your pump and maybe even the hose may be missing. Having an ice box drain into the bilge is a bad idea. Get a new pump.

Read this page on genoa tracks. There is no reason why cutting the headliner should look like it was done with a chain saw.

Read this on deck layouts. You're joking about running self-tapping screws into the balsa, right? If not, read this on deck repairs, then re-read the info on the drill, fill, drill method. Don't put anything high-load on the companion spray-hood as it's only held on by screws. Elsewhere, machine screws backed up by fender washers seem to be sufficient.

David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV

Last edited by (2009-07-07 05:55:44)

windyday · 2009-07-07 20:40:24

I have been modernizing the deck layout on an old Mark II. Following the experience of others, I've been cutting into the headliner to fit fender washers and nylon locknuts onto throughbolts inside after potting pilot holes outside with hardened epoxy to protect the balsa core and redrilling final holes through the hardened epoxy. Once I've got all the hardware installed, I'll figure out how to hide the cutouts in the headliner, probably using bits of teak, or maybe painting bits of plastic and screwing them on. I replaced the old 3-sheave line organizers with 4-sheave (each sheave has a through-bolt, whereas the originals used screws into the balsa, which thankfully was still white and dry), reduced the coach-head winches from 4 to 2, and removed all the old cleats. I am installing rope clutches ahead of the two winches. I agree about not using the companionway cover for running rigging hardware loads.

I also found the ice box drain hose lying in the bilge when we bought the boat. During the refit, I installed a small removable access hatch on the engine space wall just over the ice box drain, and re-routed the hose over to the sink cabinet. I'm installing a Whale foot pump there for the freshwater line and and thining about also running the ice box drain hose into the sink via that pump using a 3-way valve and a prepump inline filter to catch the icebox crud.
---------------------
1974 Mark II C&C 27

Last edited by (2009-07-07 20:47:12)

Martin Jubenvile · 2009-07-07 22:50:22

Thanks guys,

I have seen the error of my ways after surfing this site AFTER I posted so be gentle. I'll check the hose since the pump is there and is operating, and I would be willing to bet the hose is disconnected. I like the idea of the three way valve to either use the fresh water or drain the tank.

I actually printed a tree ring binder full of info from this site last night and read the majority of it. I liked the idea of lighting the winch covers below for the galley and might talk the Admiral into somewhat of the same setup for the strip of opaque plastic required for the track installation.

I have a question though, has anyone thought abought a curved track running just inside the deck bolts where the headliner alows access for inspecting the bolts? I have seen this method many times on different boats and it seems sufficient for our needs with no cutting of the head liner. The only problem I see is not being able to sheet the Genoa at a perfect angle.

davidww1 · 2009-07-07 23:22:45

Using the same pump for your sink freshwater and for your icebox melt? Yuck, filter or no filter ("Tasting notes include a soupcon of beer-bottle label, with that distinct mouth-feel of rotted lettuce - 95 points on the regurgitation scale"). For much the same price as a 3-way valve you can get another, clog-resistant pump (mine is loose on the hose, so we pull it out of the cabinet to pump).

Lighting under (or more accurately, above) the plastic covers of the track is a cute idea but there's no room.

Mounting curved track along the periphery of the deck? For considerable cash and labour, you'll have moved the sheeting position inboard perhaps 2 inches. To what purpose?

David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV

Last edited by (2009-07-08 03:34:14)

Martin Jubenvile · 2009-07-07 23:53:34

David,

I have a bunch questions as a new owner and instead of filling up the server for this site for info already covered many times, can I by chance get your e-mail address? If you don’t want it out there I completely understand.

 Mine is : [deleted by Admin]

Last edited by (2009-07-08 00:02:13)

davidww1 · 2009-07-08 00:00:49

Read this, particularly "Using the Forum". Use the search function to look for previously answered questions. If you don't find answers, then it's time to make your contribution by asking the relevant question. Search. Ask. Answer. That's what the Forum is here for.

Also, it's silly just to ask me. There are others on this site who have different but equally interesting ideas about how to do things. Ask me - get one answer. Ask the Forum - get several answers with different perspectives (some of which may even be valid).

David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV

Last edited by (2009-07-08 07:29:10)

Martin Jubenvile · 2009-07-08 00:07:22

Gotcha

windyday · 2009-07-08 20:04:19

Martin, don't mind cheerful gruffness- post away and filter what you need. This forum has been very, very helpful as we refit our new to us old C&C 27. I must remember to mail my renewal membership cheque -- sorry David, just a very busy summer here.

David has a good point about not running ice box effluent through the water pump. We never drink boat water, and we try to keep food well contained so that only melted ice or condensed water gets into that drain, but there will be the day when something undesireable gets in that hose. Furthermore, all the extra plumbing for a T does not make as much sense as a simple hand pump on the ice box drain hose.

---------------------
1974 Mark II C&C 27

pura vida · 2009-07-08 22:14:10

Welcome Martin,

The original icebox pump was mounted to the bottom of the shelf under the sink on my MKII. After purchasing a Tempo to replace it (about $25), I opted for a simple plastic bucket in the icebox. The stock ice box has no insulation and ice melts too fast to make it meaningful for any length of time. There are a number of threads discussing fixes for the insulation problem. The advantage of the bucket is that items you really want to keep cold go in the bucket with the ice and the things that need to cool stay outside. After a day's sail just empty the bucket overboard. The only water in the ice box will be from the few pieces of ice that spill out when heeled and condensation. This is easily cleaned up by a towel and no stinky ice box.

Wind Horse came with all of the amenities of a 1974 sailboat. Hank on sails, no holding tank, alcohol stove, etc. Focusing first on plumbing, rewiring, engine maintenance, lines and all of those safety fixes that an old boat might need, gave me time to consider some of the other changes envisioned for the boat. (Even though I sail single handed I am beginning to question if I want the bother of roller furling.)

There are some outstanding modifications documented on this site. Best of luck with the changes you decide to make.

Mike M
SV Wind Horse
#375
Galveston, Tx

Martin Jubenvile · 2009-07-09 02:15:59

Are you talking about that little red pump under the shelf? Is THAT what that damn things for? I leaks like a sieve at the moment and I was going to shit can it but didn't want to throw out something I may regret later.

C&C 27 Mark III 1976

"Shifts and Giggles"

Last edited by (2009-07-09 02:23:30)

Martin Jubenvile · 2009-07-09 02:30:36

Don’t sweat it as far as gruff goes, I’m a charter member of Sailing Anarchy so there isn’t anything I haven’t heard or said before. Now I may very well tell you to F.O. if it is appropriate, however know that it is meant in the friendliest way.

I find this site to be about as informative as any I could possibly need as far as retrofitting my boat. To let you guys understand what I’m doing, this is my first monohull after many years of racing NACRA Catamarans as well as crewing as tactician and co helm on a Tartan T10. I’m a Mechanical Engineer designing building systems by trade and actually can’t help myself as far as tinkering goes; my girlfriend calls me “Inspector Gadget”. So I’m sure I’ll have many questions as I progress through my exploits and hopefully some original ideas. I have down loaded virtually every post with a question I had previously and have started a 3 ring binder to keep on the boat for reference. I am using this boat as a test bed to start and learn as much as possible prior to moving up to a 40 footer and retiring. I am 45 years old now and plan to be on the water drinking Dark and Stormys in 5 years. So in the next couple of years this boat will be worth far more than I could ever get out of it because I plan on revising and or replacing virtually every piece of equipment and systems on the boat as well as adding things that wouldn’t normally be found on a boat of this size. Now I know a shit load of people are going to chime in and say “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”. Well this is fun for me and the Admiral told me if I keep it under 10 grand then I can do what I want. That leaves a lot of latitude as far as I’m concerned and I plan to have a little fun in the process.

I like the idea of the foot pump as far as they draining of the cooler goes, however I’m thinking that a couple of check valves in the sink discharge to the through hull is the way to go. Thought’s?

C&C 27 Mark III 1976

"Shifts and Giggles"

Hell's teeth! What did you do, write that in Word and then paste it in? Bad idea. Word is notorious for writing insanely verbose, MS-proprietary HTML that doesn't work anywhere but in IE. Support Web universality - bomb Redmond today! Thank you. - Admin

Last edited by (2009-07-09 03:52:49)

Martin Jubenvile · 2009-07-09 02:32:26

I tried to fix this but it wouldn't let me, sorry guys!!!!!
C&C 27 Mark III 1976

"Shifts and Giggles"

davidww1 · 2009-07-09 06:13:02

I think that the bottom of the ice box is below the top of the sink through-hull fitting, so the ice box won't drain that way. Moreover, you don't want your water running out whenever it feels like it - meltwater is cold and will help keep your ice box and its contents cold. You want to hang on to it until it's time to pack up and go home.

David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV

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#1 2009-05-18 08:14:06

C&C 27 MK 3 1976

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Re: C&C 27 MK 3 1976

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Re: C&C 27 MK 3 1976

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Re: C&C 27 MK 3 1976

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