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Ok, I have obtained a suitable Y valve and am just about to add a fresh water intake from the sink seacock to the water inlet. There are a few chats in the archives here that talk loosely about the procedure....
I pretty much plan to just install it all in the back of the cabinet under the sink.
Are there any gotchas I should be concerned about?
I am wondering if there should be a new vented loop above the water line with a vacuum breaker... the traditional diagrams I seem to find on the net have an above-water-line loop with a vacuum breaker after the pump but before the bowl... so the whole lake can't be siphoned into the toilet bowl...
I'm not in the boat right now to verify, but I'm not sure if the original flush water hose has a loop or a vacuum breaker at all.
Last minute advice?
Cheers.
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Marine authors warn of boats sinking regularly from water entering via the head, a warning I was inclined to pooh-pooh as I've never heard of it happening. I read this fall, however, that it most often happens because weed has lodged in the head's valves, holding them open for a trickle of water to enter, etc. glug, glug. Recently, we've had more weed around our club – a lot more – to the point where my engine inlet strainer has been full at season's end, so it could happen, and it could happen to me. So I'm going to put a vented loop on my head this year. At about $27.00, it's reasonable insurance.
Now here's a gotcha - according to Jabsco (who should know), most plumbing diagrams are wrong. Putting a vented loop between the seacock and the head will make the head pump almost impossible to prime; the correct location is between the head's pump and bowl. See this diagram for the correct location. The forum where I found the link, run by Peggie Hall, who calls herself the Headmistress, went on, in part dealing with someone who objected to the appearance of plumbing appurtenances,
"This isn't only true for Jabsco toilets...the vented loop has to go in the same place on all manual toilets that are below waterline.
"The loop needs to be at least 6-8" above waterline at any angle of heel, not just when the boat is at rest.
"A toilet pulls water to the pump from the thru-hull, but it pushes water from the pump to the bowl. Vented loops have an air valve that opens to pull air into a line to break a siphon in a line through which liquid is being pulled, but doesn't let air or anything else escape through a line through which liquids are being pushed.
"So if the loop is between the thru-hull and the pump, the pump will pull air into the line through it that'll prevent the toilet from priming.
"Whether you can hide it or not shouldn't be your primary concern. It's a boat, not a condo...seacocks, y-valves and loops need to be readily accessible so they can be maintained, which you won't do if they're hidden, 'cuz out of sight almost always means "out of mind" too." [Actually, on a 27, you can tuck it away where it's not too obtrusive but still accessible.]
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
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The fresh water valve for the toilet is always close. This fix the problem. I put water manually ( with a gallon ). This need less water and and the septic tank last a bit longer. I don't have a Y valve a exit of the toilet. It's goes directly to the tank. On a MV, space for plumbing is a concern !!!
Jean <img src="emoticons/icon_smile.gif">
MV 1985 "NEOGA"
Sorel-Tracy
Thanks for the help.
From another session in the boat, it appears that the sensible thing to do is mount the Y valve under the sink, right beside the existing flush water pipe.
Then, I can remove the short pipe that goes from the pump to the back of the toilet, and route it under the sink and up under the cabinet for a loop and a vacuum breaker.
That might not be QUITE 8 inches above waterline at full heel, but I'm not so worried about that case... if there is a seal failure and it starts bringing in lake water at full heel, I'll be on the boat. I don't expect a leaking seal to sink the boat faster than I can figure out the source and turn to windward...
More parts to order!
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Forgive the ignorance, but does your boat not have a small locker behind the head and just below the deckhead? Or is that space occupied by the recirculating tank? My boat has the locker and I hope to mount the loop in that space.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
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Yep that's actually where I hope to put the loop as well.
Just not sure it's the recommended eight inches above waterline at maximum heel. It seems to be at deck level, and the rail is sometimes at the waterline when heeled hard....
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Actually I wasn't all that clear.
I expect to put the switch in the lower cabinet, with the tees and such to get the fresh water in. The system could actually be done there, but has no anti siphon protection.
So then I would add a loop in the cabinet just under the window, with a vacuum breaker. This would plumb in to the line that is currently just the white plastic line about 18 inches long joining the pump to the back of the bowl.
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Trevor John McCormick here. Any Y valve installation needs to be locked out on fresh water lakes or within the 3 mi limit at sea..Your location would be simpler to plumb without it.My present boat (originally built for the ocean)has one with a vented loop between the toilet pump and bowl plus another on the sea discharge line after the Y valve.I keep the Y valve locked and discharge all into the holding tank. I just bought a 50 ft coil of premium 1 1/2 hose to replace my old stinky ones. If you need some I will probably have lots left.
Hello John. (the previous owner of this boat)
Yah, I had wondered about that. Even though the boat cannot possibly send sewage overboard, and the Y-valve does something else, it might look fishy if somebody was doing a quick inspect.
Maybe they'll feel better if the lock it even if they don't understand what they are doing, the Y valve is lockable.
Oh well, we'll see. I'm still acquiring the parts. Working on the DC a lot lately and that might keep me busy...
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I have finished this job now. Seemed pretty straightforward, the only struggles were the usual "dealing with thick pipe at freezing temperatures that need to bend around corners".
I have some notes and pictures, I could type this up for the black arts if anybody cares...
[Seems like a reasonable offer. Please use the Fleet mailing address. - Admin]
Last edited by (2007-11-18 06:58:13)
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Sorry -- I should have mentioned that an electric kettle (or a nearby hot water tap) is essential for fitting hose, especially when it's cold. Sanitary -- or for that matter any large diameter hose -- is a bear to bend and to fit over barbs when it's cold. With a good splash of really hot water, its manners improve immeasurably.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
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Hello John McCormick,
I am getting deep into my recently acquired MarkI which was neglected for a number of years, and would be interested in some of that 1 1/2 inch hose if there is any to spare. Does it have wire in it? Thanks.
Chris Ferrier, "Second Wind"