C&C 27 Association Forum

Guest

C&C 27 Mk V

Hi,

In the hunt for a "new" boat and have long thought a C&C 27 would be a perfect fit. Found a C&C 27 Mk V that I want to explore further. Understand it's a complete re-design from the earlier 27s. I'd love to hear all opinions on the Mk V -- good, bad or ugly -- as well as useful comparisons to the earlier 27s, as I might find one of those as a possible "new" boat too.

Many thanks,

Robert

Guest

Re: C&C 27 Mk V

We are in the process of adding the Mk V to this web site. Hopefully one of the Mk V owners will respond to you request. For info on the other Mk's please go to the Overview & Evolution section on this site. If you have any specific questions please feel free to ask. Are you looking for a boat to race or cruise? or maybe a little of both? If cruising is the majority of your sailing you might want to look at the earlier versions.
Bob

Guest

Re: C&C 27 Mk V

Thanks. While the main interest for the time being is cruising, racing is something that I might like to get involved in. I've only crewed once on a Wed night race night; probably learned more about sail trim on that one night than I had in my first two season cruising in my first boat.

Initially I was looking at the earlier C&C's but haven't happened upon one for sale in the kind of shape I want.  Very interested in your comments in favour of an earlier 27 if mostly cruising. Can you explain the relative advantages.

Have read everything I've been able to find on 27s - great site btw -- just hoping to get more on the MK V and any candid comparisons with Mks I thru IV.

Hopefully I'll hear from some MK V owners too.

Thanks again.

Robert
Lake WInnipeg, Manitoba

Jim

Member

Re: C&C 27 Mk V

Hi Robert
I own and race a MKV in Toronto.
It is certainly a different design than the MK1 - MK1V - the MKV is a foot shorter, has a bit less sail, and definitly less cabin room.
The boat sails well in all winds, but is particularly fast in 12 - 20 knots.  The helm is well balanced, and the boat is stiff going upwind (and likes a chop better than the earlier designs).  There is enough room to cruise with two adults - but not four.  If you race it you sould do well, as it sails to it's PHRF rating without a problem.
Have a survey done before you buy - look for wet deck core around the mast & baby stay.  Also look for leaky windows and look for blisters on the hull & rudder
I love my boat and reccomennd the model.
If you want more info you should be able to email me from this web site.

Guest

Re: C&C 27 Mk V

Jim,

Thanks for your comments on the Mk V and the specific things to be in the look out for in particular.

Performing well in chop would be a great asset on Lake Winnipeg -- being shallow it tends to get smaller but very choppy, close together waves.

Thanks again,

Robert

Guest

Re: C&C 27 Mk V

I'm the owner of a 1985 C&C 27 MkV.   This boat is very different from the earlier models.  I have a friend with a Mark III, so I can make a comparison.  The MkV is a small boat, just 26'6" long, and the interior has only about 5'8" of headroom.  Earlier boats are almost 28' long and have more headroom.    The MkV salon has a small fold-down table wheras the Mk1-IV boats have a permanent dinette layout.  Most of the earlier boats were built with the Atomic 4 gasoline engine; the MkV boats were all built with the Yanmar 1GM(10) single cylinder diesel engine.  Underwater, the MkV has more modern (i.e. vertical, high aspect ratio) keel and rudder shapes, and is a little flatter in the aft sections of the hull.  The sailplan also differs.  Earlier boats have small mainsails and enourmous headsails.  The MkV has a larger main relative to the jib.  MkV traveller is on the bridgedeck.  MkV's have inboard jib sheeting tracks; I think most of the earlier boats ran the jib sheets through snatch blocks on the rail.  MkV's all have split backstays.  I could go on; as I said they are very different boats.  I think the earlier 27's struck a better balance between racing and cruising.  The MkV has more emphasis on the racing side.  The earlier boats tend to be faster on a reach, while the MkV tends to be faster upwind (your results may vary!)  So once you have looked at the boats you should have no problem choosing between the two, since one or the other will fit your sailing style better.  This Web site should soon have more information about the MkV; check back in a little while.  To my personal taste -- and I don't want to offend anyone -- the MkV is a more handsome boat.  For me, the MkV is a far better boat, because it suits my sailing objectives, but the earlier ones are great boats for other people.  If you buy any of these boats, watch out for blisters on the hull and saturated balsa core in the deck.
Bob.

Guest

Re: C&C 27 Mk V

Bob (et al)

Thanks for your comments. I'm really looking forward to looking at the Mk V prospect in a couple weeks.

Thanks again,

Robert

Guest

Re: C&C 27 Mk V

Bob

What hull number do you have & where do you sail?
I race hull #69 at Etobicoke Yacht Club in Toronto.

Guest

Re: C&C 27 Mk V

Jim,
Too many Roberts/Bob's?  One of us (me) has hull number 75, s/v Heatwave.  I sail out of Lakeshore Yacht Club in Etobicoke, Ontario.  We've corresponded by email about used sails in the past.
Regards,
Bob.

Guest

Re: C&C 27 Mk V

The "27 Mark V" is really a totally different boat than the earlier 27s.     
It is actually an evolution of the original C&C 24.  I owned and sailed a 24 for several years, it was a very nice boat to sail and I enjoyed it thoroughly.  If you look at the following links: <A href="http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/index1.htm">http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/index1.htm</A>  and <A href="http://sailquest.com/market/models/cc25n.htm">http://sailquest.com/market/models/cc25n.htm</A> it will be easy to recognize the development.  On my pier at the marina we have a 25 and a boat some refer to as the "27 Mark V".  - examining these boats will reveal the obvious.  One key characteristic is the transom-hung rudder, the window design and beam of t he hull were also fairly consistent.  The 25 was a vast improvement over the 24 in a number of ways. There was also a 26 that was a separate development.  The problem I had with my 24 was poor pointing ability, but C&C claimed to fix this in the 25' model with a deeper keel - the specifications seem to support this although I never sailed one.  The latest version is a nice boat and has more interior room - although less headroom - than the I-IV 27.
"Mary Anne" C&C 27 Mark I (tall rig) Hull # 208

Guest

Re: C&C 27 Mk V

Interesting comparison between the C&C 24, C&C 25 (I assume the Mark II model) and the C&C 27 Mark V.  I owned and sailed a late production 24 for a couple of years.  (In case anyone recognizes this boat, it was named "Red Ball" and I renamed it to "Solar Wind").  I also owned and sailed a C&C 25 MkI for one season (this boat was named "Caliope" and had a light blue hull).  I've owned my 27 MkV for 2 years.  Although all three boats were fun to sail, I don't see too much similarity between them.  The similarity with the 25 MkII is probably stronger, and I do believe that C&C intended the 27 MkV as a replacement for the 25 MkII.  The C&C 26 was intended as a replacement that would cost less to build for the original 27 models, but it didn't catch on and the 27 actually outlived the 26 in production.

davidww1

Member

Re: C&C 27 Mk V

The Mk V is a different boat from the earlier 27's but I can't accept your likening of the Mk V to the 24 if you're referring to the one found at your link, which first appeared around '75.

I think you are confusing superficial style with the substantive, where there are huge differences. Everything was relatively beamy (and looked it) in the late seventies/early eighties and a transom-hung rudder is as much a cost-control measure as anything. As such, this rudder is inevitable on a 24-25 ft boat, and by the time the Mk V appeared, essential if C&C were to compete with new market entries. Although there is a family resemblance, the lines of the coachroof differ from one boat to the other and - most importantly - there are vast differences between the hulls and appendages of the earlier 24 and 25 MkII and those of the Mk V.

Both the earlier boats (24 and 25-II) have considerable rocker to their hulls in anticipation of their likely roles as cruiser/racers rather than racer/cruisers. There is even significant immersion of the transom, both qualities likely aimed at giving the boat sufficient volume aft to counter the weight of a crew that expects to sit in the cockpit. Both boats have the slack entry (and probably the fullness forward) of the 27 Mk I -IV.

I remember the Mk V, by contrast, as C&C's response to the rise of MORC and an attempt to recreate the company's reputation for production boats with serious racing potential (an early example was raced by a C&C people associated with the boat's development). It has a flatter run aft with no significant immersion at the transom, probably in anticipation of a crew that would ride the rail or keep to the forward part of the cockpit, thus obviating the need for volume aft. The bow has a distinct knuckle, which usually goes hand in hand with a fine entry, good for windward ability, rotten for carrying all your cruising clobber. For the appendages, C&C discarded the last vestige of the swept-back trailing edge on the keel; the slight rounding at the tips disappeared in favour of the chiselled look that ruled until the advent of the whale-tail style.

All in all, I'd have to say that while you are quite right about the Mk V being a different boat from the 'classic' 27, there's not a lot of DNA shared between the 24, which hit the water around '75, the 25 Mk II, which owed a lot to the 24, and the Mk V, which turned up in '84, eight or nine years later. There are many accusations that can be laid at the C&C Design Group's door, but their willingness to learn and change was never in doubt.

Incidentally, a number of 26's popped up at various times. I vaguely remember a very 25-ish 26 toward the end of the seventies that didn't last long. According to Bob England, who is collecting material on the Mk V for this site, the 26 Wave (later part of the eighties) was a cruising interpretation of the Mk V hull and deck with a larger engine, smaller rig and a winged keel.

David Weatherston
"Towser", Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV

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David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV