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The head on my Mk II does not seem to have a fresh water intake for flushing. Instead the line runs from the top of the holding tank to the head. The head does not bring fresh water in when pumping. I have tried flipping the small lever, beside the pump plunger, from open to closed, with no result. I have taken this apart and cleaned everything out. Otherwise the head works jest fine. I simply pour a mug of water down the toilet to clean.
However, I would like to get it working properly. This is very confusing. Does anyone know how the system is supposed to work?
Cheers,
Robin
Hi Robin,
I don't know what type of head is in your boat but the line you describe as running from the tank to the pump is the head's discharge line and carries the waste from the head into the tank. If the head in your boat has both a "flush" and "pump dry" selector lever on it's pump, you should have a raw water supply line running from a thru-hull fitting located in the cabinet under the sink to the pump on the side of the head . Perhaps a previous owner has removed that hose so (too much) lake water can't be pumped into the holding tank ???
We found that lake water, added to the holding tank when the head was flushed seemed to accelerate the development of odours. We now leave our raw water through-hull valve closed , and like you, use only fresh water to rinse the bowl.
Clare and Carol Jordan , Aragorn
<U>SAIL FOR SALE </U>_
#2 Genoa for 27' Mk.111 by North Sails . Tri-radial cut, Norlam fabric, built 1998-- good shape . Window, tell-tales and draught stripe. Stitching etc. checked ;2001/2002 . #6 Luff tape .
Replacement Genoa is on order for 2004 racing season but there's some cruising years left in this one -$ 550 asking price. phone 613 498-2029 or e-mail <A href="mailto:bosco@ripnet.com">bosco@ripnet.com</A> <img src="emoticons/icon_frown.gif">Brockville)
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Thanx for your reply!
The line I'm talking about is a small diameter hose which runs to the connection beside the hand pump. This line runs to a matching connection on the top of the holding tank situated in the sliding door cabinet on the left side of the head compartment.
The only thru-hull fitting is for the sink drain.
The waste hose from the base of the bowl works just fine.
As I said, my question concerns the fresh water 'flush'.
Cheers!
It sounds as if you have a head/holding tank system that follows the Porta-Potti model, in which the holding tank receives an initial charge of water and chemical, and thereafter flushes only with liquid drawn from the holding tank. It's a system that reduces the rate at which the holding tank is filled, but has some obvious disadvantages.
Before you do anything, you should assess the size of your holding tank. The Mk. IV (and presumably the Mk. III) have a 10.4 gal (13.0 U.S.) holding tank. With a fresh-water fitting, this is good only for a few days of cruising with 4 careful users. If your tank is much smaller -- and I gather that many tanks are -- a lake connection may simply fill the tank intolerably quickly, so you may want to stick to the present system, but adopt the practice of rinsing the head post-flush with a small amount of water from the sink.
If you do want to move to a lake-water flush, I'd cap the small-diameter fitting on the holding tank (or better yet, use it to run a second vent hose, which will reduce the growth of odour-causing anerobic bacteria in the tank). Then, connect the intake side of the head pump to your sink drain line, as close as possible to the through-hull. The connection point must be well below the waterline; if it is above or near the waterline, you won't get any water to the head pump.
The virtues of using the sink drain fitting (assuming it works properly) are: you save the bother and expense of a new through-hull; and if you run into the same problem as Aragorn, above, with a smelly head caused by the death of lake-water organisms in the bowl, you can easily rinse the head bowl. Just give the head bowl a rinse post-flush by closing the sink seacock, pumping some water into the sink and down its drain (from which it won't escape, remember, because you closed the seacock), then pumping that water through the bowl.
David Weatherston
"Towser", Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Last edited by (2004-01-15 00:41:09)
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
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On the MKIII you have a tank made by Kracor that holds approx. 15.5 gallons. It is a recirculating system that uses a 2 gallon "charge" of water and chemicals to flush the head. This charge goes in first thing after a pump out.
On top of your tank you have 4 hoses. 2 are 1.5 inch. First one is the pump out hose that goes from the deck fitting to the bottom of the tank. Second is the one from the head to the top of the tank. Next you have a small vent line from the top of the tank to the hull.
The fourth one is the one that causes problems. This is the recirculating line that goes from the bottom of the tank to the head and carries the flush water. Inside of the tank at the end of the hose is a screen that gets clogged up over time. blocking the flush water from getting to the head.
The only cure that I know of is to remove the whole tank and replace all of the hoses with new marine grade hoses. In my case I found the pumpout hose had cracked inside the tank and no longer reached the bottom further reducing the capacity of the tank. Let me know if you decide to pull the tank. C&C really buried it behind the wall.
John
1975 27 C&C MKIII
Many thanx for everyone's help. As a result of your information, I have discovered more data from various internet sites. Google works wonders!
Looks like the best choice is to flush with a cup or two of water.
Certainly the hoses need to be changed. Anyone have a recommendation for type of hose?
Robin
I replaced my large-diameter head hoses with a recently introduced white plastic hose from Australia called Sealand Technology Odoursafe. (Genco (www.gencomarine.com/) in Toronto sells it and will ship it - probably others have it too [edit - West Marine has it, US spelling]). It isn't cheap but there is now absolutely no odour from my head.
David Weatherston
"Towser", Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Last edited by (2005-01-26 02:46:26)
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
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Hi Robin.
I was not aware that C&c used a recirculating flush system . My Mk 111 has a raw water inlet line to the pump for flushing .
If, as suggested, there is a plugged screen inside the tank, perhaps a "back-flush" with some pressure might push the material back into the tank and allow the system to again work as described without having to get into the tank itself to clear the screen.
Clare Jordan Aragorn
<U>SAIL FOR SALE </U>_
#2 Genoa for 27' Mk.111 by North Sails . Tri-radial cut, Norlam fabric, built 1998-- good shape . Window, tell-tales and draught stripe. Stitching etc. checked ;2001/2002 . #6 Luff tape .
Replacement Genoa is on order for 2004 racing season but there's some cruising years left in this one -$ 550 asking price. phone 613 498-2029 or e-mail <A href="mailto:bosco@ripnet.com">bosco@ripnet.com</A> <img src="emoticons/icon_frown.gif">Brockville)
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Indeed, the re-circ. system seems to be less than ideal.
Thanx for the suggestion for the hose. The one's on my Mk. II are the originals, at least as far as I can see. Very nasty chemical smell from the compartment with the connections. Good job the sliding doors keep the odour contained!
Cheers,
Robin
Robin:The recirculating system in the Mk2 model is a molded in place tank made by Jabsco products and referred to as a PAR PROTOTANK. It is a 12 gallon (US measure) capacity, and as per the brochure/manual I have, will accomodate 30 flushes. In my opinion, recirculating systems are not the best as there seems to be constant odour. I do not use mine in this manner, but rather simply manually add water as required. It works well and minimizes odour and maximizes the utilization of the small tank capacity as compared to a through hull fresh water supply.
"Budge" 1973 Mk2 Hull # 322
'Budge', many thanx for your help. Sounds like your boat is very similar to mine!
Happy sailing
Robin
'Arrival'
MkII 1973 hull number 269
Dear "Budge" and everyone,
is there any site that has the prototank 12 manual or decent info on the operation of the system. The google search I did only pulled up the c&c 27 site.
We are the proud new owners of a C&C 27 1973. It is our first "big" boat and we are so excited! There is alot that needs fixing but we love to learn how the items we repair work. I always hope that those of you that are on you 4th or 5th boat don't forget the excitement of your first boat!!
Tim and Val- Milwaukee, wi, us
Dear Tim and Val:
Unfortunately my "owner's manual" is on my boat which is wrapped for the winter and presently covered in a foot of snow. Probably a situation similar to that which you are experiencing... Come spring, I will be happy to mail you photo copies of the manual. If so desired, e-mail me your mailing address at my address as noted below. Good luck with your boat. They really are "good old boats".
"Budge" Hull # 322 1973
Bob Honsberger Burlington Ontario
e-mail> <A href="mailto:rhonsber@pathcom.com">rhonsber@pathcom.com</A>
Does anyone know who John is? His comments on this thread from 1/15/04 seem to indicate an intimate knowledge of the MKIII holding tank condition. I would love to contact him for some pointers before I attempt to pull the tank out of my '76MKIII.
Chris
cphippen(at)utilitieskingston.com
(Address modified for protection from harvesting. Do the obvious to make it work. To avoid making it onto a spam list, please don't post your email addresses in a form readable by machine. - ADMIN)
Last edited by (2005-11-29 06:10:42)
Does anyone have the dimension for the holding tank of a mKIII?
Thanks
Sean
Chris, I think I have Johns email address and will ask him to check and get in touch with you directly. He had some good photo documentation of his tank repair.
Mike M
SV Wind Horse
#375
Galveston, Tx
Mike M
SV Wind Horse
#375
Galveston, Tx
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Does anyone still have the manual for the PAR PROTOTANK?
I am looking for the exact preloading procedure. From the above posts it seems to be "2 gallons of water and chemicals" but would like to know the ratios, specifications, etc.
Cheers.
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