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I love reading the forum, so much knowledge to be gained. I am the proud owner of a MKII, hull #332, 1973. As I become familar with other boats I have some questions that some of you may have knowledge or comments on. My boat's interior has a liner. A San Juan 34 that I ocassionally lust after has none. I notice that the SJ has moisture on the walls of the interior. Is there a structural advantage or disadvantage to building boats with or without liners? My C&C has absolutely no moisture problem that I can see (does the liner hide it?). It is the dryest boat I have ever owned. Does anyone have any good information on how the mid-70's C&C's were built as far as thickness of fiberglass, hand-laid, etc.? Is there a link or site that would provide details of C&C's construction practices? Many of you have added a diesel as a replacement. Are you happy with your conversion, if so did you add additional fuel tanks to increase your cruising range? I feel so confident in C&C's construction of that time period (mid-70's) that I often muse on sailing mine through the Bahamas, down to South American and back along Mexico by Texas and home. Some have said that I should construct stringers to add support the hull etc. but looking at the areas many of the forum contributors sail in, it seems to be a tough little boat. Anyway, just some questions that past through my mind at times. Thanks for all the good reading, part of loving my MKII comes from having this website and reading all the good stuff (yes, I am a member and help support this site). Wishing all a great year of sailing.
Charles,
I planned on taking Wind Horse that same way but I think life is leading me in another direction. From what I consider the biggest problem with taking a 27 farther than the Bahamas is likely to be storage not structure. I suspect a well maintained 27 could island hop the western tropics without too much trouble even if it would be a little cramped.
As for the diesel I believe that the biggest advantages are fuel efficiency and weight savings. My 2GM is about 100lbs lighter than the original Atomic Four which means a few more cans of beans in the lockers. I guess that I can get about 260km out of a tank of fuel which give ms a working range of 200km. Far more than I need for running up and down the Texas coast. I would not go to the trouble of pitching out a working A4 but I would not rebuild one either. Personal preference.
Mike M
SV Wind Horse
#375
Galveston, Tx
Mike M
SV Wind Horse
#375
Galveston, Tx
Offline
Hey Mike, Thanks for your response. Did your boat come with the diesel or did you refit? I know this sounds stupid, but what does the "SV" before Wind Horse mean? I have noticed your postings on the forum, I've been reading the forum for a while now, I appreciate your insight into the problems presented, as well as those by the other regulars. I guess the storage thing would be a problem. I have bare-boated in south florida and LA (lower Alabama) and hadnn't really given much thought to provisioning for weeks at a time. It would be pretty easy to fill up the C&C 27 but then you sacrifice speed. I guess I am like most, I have the yearn to sail for distance shores, and feel time slipping away. I love my boat, but for cruising I wish I had something a little larger. Like my wife says, I'm never satisfied. Thanks again.
Charles, Thanks for the kind words. I'll admit to a lot opinions about the 27 but have to defer to some of the long time owners on the forum as the real authorities. The SV is for sailing vessel, not something that needs to be said here but it is more important in the other groups I belong to where there are motor vessels as well. Wind Horse came with the 2GM but after stuffing a 350 Chevy into a Volkswagon Beatle the A4 to 2GM conversion looks really easy to me.
The one point I have to make about the 27 is that it is perfect for most of the local cruising I do. Frankly I would not trade the ease of getting into and out of the slip for all the stability in the world. The autopilot makes it track straight, well most of the time..
How is sailing on Lake Lanier? From the air it looks pretty interesting.
Mike M
SV Wind Horse
#375
Galveston, Tx
Mike M
SV Wind Horse
#375
Galveston, Tx
Offline
Good Morning Mike. The sailing on Lake Lanier is great Monday through Thursday. On the Weekends the sheer number of power boats creats enough chop that in light winds the waves literally stop your monentum. It is the most used lake in Georgia. On weekends it's very much like an interstate at rush hour. On this lake, unlike many in Georgia, homeowners can build right very close to the shoreline. You have million-dollar mansions lining the coves and main channels. But the lake is a very pretty lake, and usually very clear. The winds shift alot, and islands will effect the direction and force of the wind. But on good days its a great lake to sail on. We have moved to Knoxville, Tennessee and Sea Robin is on Watts Bar lake now. It is a great place to sail, very natural, lots of wildlife, and few boats through the week. Lots of sailing on the weekends, very few powerboats, Nice and wide where we are. Did you install your autopilot? I was wondering if there is one unit that C&C owners have had success with mounting and performance-wise. I am also thinking of roller furling. Anyway, have a good day and thanks for all the info.
A liner will trap air to some extent, minimizing the temperature differential that causes condensation. The C&C liner does provide some rigidity, particularly in the V-berth, but that's not a major function as it is in some (70's Ericcsons and contemporary French boats use structural liners). Most of the strength comes from the major components themselves (balsa core helps make the deck more rigid without weight).
The downside of a liner is that it can provide a spot for mould to grow. Keep your boat well ventilated.
Perhaps someone could provide you a precise laminate schedule from his South Shore build report, but I know that C&C hulls were gelcoat, a thin layer of chopper-gun to prevent print-through, then hand-laid glass, mostly roving for strength). It's grossly over-built by contemporary standards.
Don't listen to people who want you to beef up your boat - yacht club bars are full of Nervous Nellies who want to convert their boats into cast-iron boilers. Look at the picture of Lark in 27 Tales - slammed down on a rock ledge and what do you get? A bent rudder stock and scuffed gelcoat. Try that with a Beneteau or Hunter and you'd be picking the boat out of your clothing. Remember:
- "All amateurs overbuild," - George Cassian, aerospace engineer and the materials-and-structure "C" of "C&C",
- The sailors who died in the infamous '79 Fastnet were those who abandoned their yachts. I think I'm correct in saying that all the abandoned yachts were recovered afloat, and these were lighter boats than a 27. The yacht that was abandoned in A Perfect Storm was found on a New Jersey beach, essentially undamaged, and returned to her owner. Lesson: fibreglass boats are incredibly tough, so much so that it might make sense to forbid boats to carry life-rafts in races like the Fastnet so people don't panic and bail out. Yachts' major weak point is through-hulls and hoses, an issue any intelligent sailor can manage.
Their other major weak point is sailors - unless you have the supreme bad fortune to run into the sort of century storm that turns up in Heavy-Weather Sailing or have someone run over you, all the literature of sailing disasters points to bad decision-making - but isn't that the prime ingredient in every human disaster?
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
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David, thank you so much for your reply. It was exactly what I had hoped to hear. I had either heard or felt that the fiberglass was hand-laid, but didn't know for sure. Everything I have read about the early C&C's were as you described, overbuilt. I know from having owned a Catalina 27 that the C&C is noticeably built with more care and craftsmanship, but could not find in print some reassurance for my gut feelings. As I mentioned to Mike in the previous emails, having knowledgeable people such as yourself in a website support group makes owning my boat so much more enjoyable. I check the site at least once a day, so much information to be gotten from all you guys. Thanks for the reassurance on the liner, as mentioned earlier, my boat is so dry its scary. I do keep it well ventilated. I agree with your assessment on abandoning a boat that is still afloat. I was in the U.S. Navy for almost 5 years and one of the cardinal rules is don't abandon a boat until it sinks beneath you. Anyway, thanks so much for the info and I look forward to your future responses in the forum.
When asked how to board a life boat a naval officer once said: "You step into it from the top of the mast."
I took the same ideas as David from Fastnet Force 10. You can't give up the ship. The book is really a must read although I think John Rousmaniere does like his traditional boats.
I've sailed on the Westsail 32 and realy like the boat. For an around the world cruiser she would be on the short list. But for around the bay and bouys, I'm sticking with the 27. It is a heck of a lot easier to get out of the slip.
The best way to ride out a hurricane???
A four star hotel in Chicago!
Mike M
SV Wind Horse
#375
Galveston, Tx
Mike M
SV Wind Horse
#375
Galveston, Tx
Offline
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