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Got a survey of the boat I have been writing about-- '71 Mk I. Good news is that hull and keel are OK. Mast step and supports OK; standing rigging OK except wobbly spreaders as I'd already written.
Rest of news wasn't so good. Lots of delamination of side deck, esp. around chainplates. (Tapping with a hammer was much more accurate than my tapping by hand-- something I'd picked up in medical practice.) Wet bulkheads around chainplates but taps solid. He says boat will never be dry unless much of deck is redone (I've seen the photos in Black Arts)-- and he thought that wasn't worth the $$. None of the deck is in danger of collapsing but will never be stable enough to allow bedding to remain intact.
The crack at the front of the rudder which I'd seen but not written about here was, according to him, the most worrisome. There was rust on the area of the rudder below the crack and he said this was due to corrosion of the tangs in the rudder which were not stainless. He said this set up the possibility of rudder failure/breakage.
All of the gate valves on thru-hulls are frozen ( which I already knew) and need replacing.
He didn't think the chainplates would go in usual weather in Long Island Sound but was concerned about the gales we get-- and we do get those. Suggested aluminum backing plates that would incorporate not only the present chainplate bolt positions but also extending lower into dry bulkhead below where the chainplates now bolt.
He thought the rudder could be taken apart, tangs rewelded, and skin replaced. (I know about the Mk II rudder available in Ontario. Had a very nice chat with the owner yesterday after the survey. My best to you, Bob. Maybe will actually try to get that rudder if things work out otherwise with the boat.)
The cabin top was actually in pretty good condition considering some leaks at the hand rails and the attaching hardware for the dodger.
The engine is in the process of having a major overhaul (starter, alternator, etc.-- not work on the block). I'm assuming from what the mechanic said that it'd be in good working order when he finished and should last a few years until the side plate became an issue.
I am in a position where I have some choice as to whether or not to keep the boat; if I kept it I could also donate it or sell it to someone with more experience and interest in major boat repair than I have. When I'm on the boat I'm in love with her and with sailing. When I am off the boat I wonder if I'm out of my mind to even consider sailing something with potential failures in its rudder and chainplates/bulkheads. [Of course being in love and being out of one's mind are by no means mutually exclusive states of (un)consciousness.]
What I'd like, if it can be given, is some advice about what others would do with a boat like this. Not even sure what questions to ask and I realize I'm only giving a partial picture of what's going on. Still, any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks
Steve
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This boat, by the sound of it, has nothing but problems - and you said you haven't even told us what they all are. You, the half-committed owner, are not interested in doing maintenance. Does this sound like a toxic mix? Does to me.
This is a serious project boat - a boat that has an array of visible far-reaching problems and probably has hidden problems that stem from them. It will be meat and drink to some guy who has time on his hands and sufficient experience to get at the problems, enjoy the process of solving and rectifying them, and doesn't mind that when he sells the thing, he'll make about $0.15 an hour for his effort.
You, by your own admission, are not that guy. It might be interesting to be your own contractor and oversee the repair of this little darling, but what you've described sounds like $30K minimum to me, Toronto prices. I imagine New York is a bit more. One way or another, you'll end up with a boat that will have cost you about two-and-a-half to three times what it would fetch on the open market.
You say you're in love with this boat? Well, now is the time to admit to yourself that you're in love with the idea of this boat: nice lines, good sailing manners, etc. but get it into your head that this is a production boat, not a one-off. Remember this magic number, 984. That's for the 984 C&C 27's that were built -- 984 of the little beasts -- a good number of which are bound to be in better shape than this little darling of yours, many of which are for sale and some of which are for sale at can't-lose prices.
Go find a 27 that won't break your heart.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
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Steve,</SPAN>
In some small sense I may be the guy that David speaks of who enjoys solving repair problems and is willing to work for .15 per hour to revive a sweet boat like the 27. While soft spots on the deck didn't stop me from buying Wind Horse and frankly I still have one wobbly spreader that I'll fix sometime this summer (I'm sailing it too darn much). Personally, I too would pass on this rebuild. She is going to need some serious time out of the water'. Also I don't believe that your can repair this boat in stages since to repair the deck/chain plate leaks correctly will require doing it all at once. Frankly, the gate valve issue is really a biggy for me and would be what I corrected first.</SPAN>
</SPAN>Now to confuse the issue event more I have a buddy who will never waste money rebuilding an old boat. Instead he bought a new Catalina and will face depreciation that will quickly exceed what I have in Wind Horse. The point is every boat is a financial loss. The question becomes will you sleep well knowing your investment in this boat was what you wanted to do or are you ready to take your losses and try again? Is this YOUR BOAT? Sometimes the money just doesn't count.</SPAN>
Mike M
SV Wind Horse
#375
Galveston, Tx
Mike M
SV Wind Horse
#375
Galveston, Tx
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thanks to David and Mike for the thoughtful and considerate replies. I will likely not be the owner of this boat. I'd like to help the present owner find a more suitable buyer and have been searching in vain for suitable online selling sites. Boatworld.com isn't up and running yet and the others I've found seem mostly about powerboats and limited even then. Any sites I've missed that people here know about and/or recommend?
Thanks again for all the help here. It really made a difference in my making a decision about the boat. I wish I were the kind of guy who loves to restore things but my mechanical interests are more of the initial install variety and I'm particularly bad at repetitive motions and long term projects. This boat will be great for someone, just not me.
There appear to be very few of the 984 27's for sale, especially around NY. Saw one advertised in Buffalo for about $9000 US and yet there's a '75 for sale on Long Island for $19000. That can't be in the right ball park, can it?
By the way, the boat I've described is going for under $3000, with, in another week, an overhauled engine and there dock priveleges go with it for another $1600 for the whole summer season. That's very cheap around here for 27ft. Considering that the hull was completely resurfaced 5 years ago and is in perfect condition (done for some bubbles, no trauma) this is probably a great deal for someone with interest and ability in fiberglass deck work. Maybe someone in the Northeast might be interested.
Anyway, thanks again for everything.
Steve
If there is any interest in the boat I will act as contact for the owner: steve@slowy.com
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