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Just having sold my 1981 25 Mk II, I am interested in a 1985 27' MK V that is for sale locally. As I do a bit of racing, I was wondering how the Mk V compares to the older versions. What are the pros & cons of the later model (other than its shorter lenth?
Thanks
Brian
Hi
Mark V compared to a MK III - IV - racing
The MKV is stiffer, faster upwind when it is over 10 knots and there is any kind of sea. Over 10K they are equal downwind. In over 15 knots much faster upwind.
MK III-IV is faster on all points of sail in under 10K, and is faster on a reach in almost any conditions (long waterline-more sail area) MK III-IV is a bit more tender in a breeze, and will "hobby horse" upwind in a sea.
The boats are even in 10-12K with flat water.
So, depends where you sail - if it's windy, get the V. If its light, the III-IV
I agree totally with the previous correspondent. I have never sailed a Mk V but have raced LARK, our Mk III against the Mk V in winter racing which invariably is heavy winds of 15 kn and more, sometimes much more. The Mk V did a horizon job on us. But on the Wednesday night series where the winds tend to be low, in the 5 to 8 kn range, we are the ones doing the horizon job.
I do disagree in one area. The specs for the Mk V in this website put the waterline at 23' vs. 22'10" for the Mk III/IV. The SA/D for the MkIII is greater and the beam/LWL is lesser on the Mk V. This makes the Mk III much more tender, requiring a reduced sail earlier.
Seems to me there are other things to consider, too. The Mk III is a much newer design and some would say, not as robust as the Mk I to IV and frankly, not as good all around. But others may disagree. The fact that it is a newer design means, too, that you automatically have a diesle engine, more desirable it seems, to most people. But you will likely pay more for the Mk V given equal condition. And finally, will you be cruising? Can't help you there since I don't know much about the cruisability of the MkV but I do know that anytime my wife and I come back from a few days cruise on LARK, we think, "Gee, a 30 footer would be nice."
Fred
LARK
Just dreaming, David. My good wife, Fran, informs me as much as we would like more space, we don't have the money right now.
I agree a C&C32 is a good boat and sails reasonably well to it's rating. (Fran and I beat one up handily one in a recent club Jack & Jill race. Fast usually doesn't always mean you go the right way.) I also know of a C&C34 for sale but those, albeit great cruisers, are slugs in low winds.
I have a friend that just bought an '89 C&C30 (Rob Ball design) that is totally unimpressive as a sailer but it's loaded with "systems". Gonna take him a year to figure out how to make them all work.
Fred
LARK
"Slugs in low winds" they may be but 34's are also vicious in a blow. I raced on one for three years, another year on another; an attractive and comfortable boat, but not one I'd care to cruise. We used to joke about "tactical broaching" on reachs or runs in 15 kt and up and it wasn't hard to round one up on the wind (C&C's marketing head embarassed himself by rounding up and t-boning another boat during a start for an evening club race).
I thought the later 30 was a bit of an abortion, a marketing-driven rather than design-driven boat; Ball told a friend that he didn't think anyone would ever use the aft cabin (too stuffy), but he had to put it in because all the top-selling French boats had them.
As to the "systems" - I'd rip the lot out. There was a very steep learning curve ahead of the comfort-&-convenience manufacturers - many of those gizmos work reasonably reliably now but the early stuff is like car telematics/electronics today - a never-ending hassle.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
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Funny you should mention the rounding up problem with the 34. We had exactly that problem with the '89 30 footer (but never with the 34 - maybe we have never experienced the right combination of winds and seas). We were in a 20 kn breeze and had no control whatever with the helm. We almost had to stear the with the main sheet and we finally got some semblance of control by putting in a double reef in the main. What's the problem? Too small a rudder for the design?
Fred
LARK
I'd look at the beam issue first. Hard on the wind with a high angle of heel, a beamy boat lifts her rudder closer to the surface. A fine bow, which makes the stern rise with heel, and which both these boats share, compounds the problem. Get the rudder near the surface in even moderately rough water and there's an excellent chance the rudder will ventilate and lose its grip. If you drop the traveller or reef as you did and thereby reduce the heel angle, there's less chance of ventilation.
I never watched other 34's closely enough to see what happened right before a wipe-out, but as it usually happened on tight spinnaker reaches, rudder ventilation seems the likely culprit.
What I could never figure out was why 34's wiped on dead runs, because there always seemed to be plenty of water under the stern. I remember a run across Lake Ontario in winds in the low to mid twenties with the wind dead square behind when everyone bought it at least once. The only thing every boat agreed on was that weight in the stern helped, so there the crews all stood, crowded on top of the transom and too shell-shocked even to go to the galley for a drink.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Offline
Brian,
If you go to forum page number 10, I'd asked a similar question on the Mark V while boat shopping. Got some excellent feed back on the Mk V with good comparison to the earlier 27s. At the time, I looked at at two Mk IIIs and a Mk IV before buying our Mk V. Only our second season with the boat. Started racing her this year. I love it.
Good luck,
Robert
s/v Skylark
(C&C 27 Mk V #18 )
Lake Winnipeg, Manitoba
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