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My early Mark III lacks the anchor well which was inaugurated later in the production run. The anchor (Danforth) currently is stowed, as is common, on two clips attached to the pulpit with the rode brought forward from cockpit locker stowage. While the anchor stowage is acceptable, if somewhat unsightly, I'd like to leave the rode attached. Accordingly, I'm contemplating installation of a hawsepipe (installed where the current centre cleat is through-bolted) into the bow compartment, which I'd block off from the V-berth area with a gasketed removable bulkhead. The single mooring cleat and a matching one would be installed closer to the toerails, as in later IIIs and IVs, with appropriate backing plates. This obviously presents a drainage challenge: should I simply let the wet rode drain through to the bilge (which has attendant smell problems) or can I drill a drain in the stem? If anyone has done a similar conversion, I'd be interested in hearing about it. Also, are there any other issues -- other than the usual one about going through a cored deck -- to be considered? Thanks in advance.
Ken Pole
Santiva
Ottawa
Ken Pole, Ottawa
1975 Mark III Santiva
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An early Mk III like yours had this conversion done six or seven years ago. I didn't examine it closely, but externally it looked almost exactly like a factory job in respect of subsequent placement of cleats, position of the cutout, etc. The fellow who did the work glassed in a ply bottom and bulkhead, making a watertight compartment that drained through the stem, just as the factory version does. As to the deck, if I recall correctly, he cut the core back a bit, filled the gap with resin putty and gelcoated it over.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
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Hi Ken,
A friend with an O'Day 27 (no anchor locker) has his Danforth hung from its clips, not on the bow pulpit, but on the stern rail instead. He says he hooks up the rode over the stern rail, deploys the anchor from there with the boat stopped, head-to-wind, then walks to the bow carrying the coiled rode with him as the boat drifts back and fastens the line to the bow cleat. Claims it works well for him.
One trick I found is that 150' of rode is much more maneageable when coiled into three 50' coils. Sometimes , of course, the last (or even the last two) coil(s) don't even need to be undone.
Clare Jordan
I keep a Danforth on the stern rail with the rode leading outside the lifelines to the bow fairleads and then to the bow cleat. Since I am almost always on the boat alone this keeps me from having to walk to the bow during anchor deployment. Galveston bay is shallow, one boat length is generally enough scope for the anchor to set but an extra coil of rode would be easy to store at the anchor. The rode is kept tight along the lifelines by cleating it on one of the spare cleats in the cockpit. The practice works well for my 13lb but the 16lb would be a bit big.
Mike M
SV Pura Vida
#375
Galveston Bay
Mike M
SV Wind Horse
#375
Galveston, Tx
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Like Mike, I often use a stern mounting because I singlehand. I stall into the wind, and pay out the anchor and rode as we back off. Galveston Bay is 10' at deepest, and I seek out the quiet anchorages so handling a 50' coil is easy. I have a heavier anchor with 150' of rode - somewhere . . . . This does take some skill as the boat does not like to back up straight, invaribly the bow blows down. I also prefer the stanchion mount that accepts the bottem end of the danforth-style anchor - less mud on the hands and easier to stow - you are holding it by the chain anyway! Don't have to flip upside down.
One comment I would make on the conversion you are considering, I would not put the drain in the stem. Sooner or later you are going to have to unclog it, and you may want it in an easier to reach location if you decide you need to plug it off in a hurry. Take a look at current production boats.
Warren Smith (AKA Tropical Warren)
Serendipity
Galveston Bay, Texas
Ken,
A couple of thoughts on your situation now that work is done. The first is that this installation will be a big job. I considered it and decided not to attempt it for several reasons, mostly because I did not feel that I could cut a hole big enough for the anchor in the very bow of the boat and do the job justice. Instead I'm considering adding a roller and a Delta. The MK III in the slip next to me has this arrangement and it seems reasonable in both scope of installation and practicality. Pura Vida has a big soft spot in the bow where the hawspipe goes through the deck (no big surprise). If I were installing an anchor locker in that area I would try to arrange the cleat and, if needed, a hawspipe inside the locker. The MK III has three cleats on the deck and it seems more cluttered than the fittings for my cutter rig. Finally a small diameter hawspipe is worthless for even a short length of chain. Pura Vida's hawspipe is 2 inches ID and will be in the dumpster by the end of the summer. If you do the job I would love to see photos.
Mike M
SV Pura Vida
#375
Galveston Bay
Mike M
SV Wind Horse
#375
Galveston, Tx
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I did a similar thing about 4 years ago to our markII. I cut through the deck just to the starboard side and a little aft of the center bow cleat. Painted the deck core with a couple of coats of epoxy and installed a hawespipe. The rode is stowed in the forward compartment and drains to the bilge like you mention and I have noticed no odour problems at all. I do usually lay the rode on the forward deck to dry before leading it below. This probably helps.
Good luck. I think you'll be fine.
Roger
Port Dover
I'm interested in what types of rode are being used through a hawsepipe, i.e. chain and line, all chain, all line. If either of the latter, any problems with hockling in the well? Again, thanks for all the useful advice.
Ken Pole
Santiva
Ottawa
Ken Pole, Ottawa
1975 Mark III Santiva
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Ken
Just rode on Pura Vida. The chain will fit but not the shackles so I keep it in the lazerette. I have no other problems with the arrangement. I'm considering how I might run chain to the space behind the water tank.
Roger
Did you install an anchor locker or just a hawspipe?
Mike M
SV Pura Vida
#375
Galveston Bay
Mike M
SV Wind Horse
#375
Galveston, Tx
Offline
Dear Mike,
If you decide to mount a roller and Delta anchor, I for one would be most interested in photos of the modification.
Nigel, Pisces V, Toronto.
I'll shoot a photo of my neighbors boat so you can see the conversion on a MK III so you will not have to wait on me and my 1000 project list. If anyone else would like to see the photos just let me know where to send the email.
Mike M
SV Pura Vida
#375
Galveston Bay
Mike M
SV Wind Horse
#375
Galveston, Tx
Offline
The photos are available. Please contact me at svpuravida (@) yahoo.com (Address Modified: Please do not enter you email address in the forum as it can be harvested by 'bots - and we don't know anybody who needs more spam. - admin) and I will forward them. My neighbor has removed his Delta and replaed it with a Bruce but the roller is the same.
Mike M
SV Pura Vida
#375
Galveston Bay
Last edited by (2005-07-18 00:58:50)
Mike M
SV Wind Horse
#375
Galveston, Tx
Offline
I've emailed the photos to those who have requested them. They are pretty large so if they do not download let me know and I'll photoshop them to a smaller size file.
Mike M
SV Pura Vida
#375
Galveston Bay
Mike M
SV Wind Horse
#375
Galveston, Tx
Offline
Hi Mike
Sorry for the delay in replying, but no, I only installed a hawspipe. I use the storeage area ahead of the v berth for storing the rope rode. Works very well so far. I usually leave the rode on deck to dry before I run into the storeage area.
Roger
I am interested in your question about anchor wells and all the replies. I'm not sure I am interested in cutting holes in the deck and all that, to make an anchor locker but I like the idea of an anchor clip on the pullpit since it seems like a simple solution to fishing out the anchor - I keep the anchor, rode and all, in the port lazarette and it is a major pain in the ass to get it out at the end of the day when cruising.
I have one question though - doesn't all that extra weight forward cause hobby-horsing, especially in light winds with left-over seas? Since I do quite a bit of club racing, I would be inclined to move the anchor back into the lazarette for that.
And speaking of anchoring, I use a 12 lb. kellet attached to the rode. Works very well and adds some reassurance. I sleep better with it on!
Fred Butler
LARK
> I use a 12 lb. kellet attached to the rode.
Where did you get the kellet and how do you attach it?
Aside from its obvious improvement in holding power, I'm interested in a kellet as an aid to anchoring during fireworks displays, air shows, etc. People pack in really tightly during these events, but there's always some half-wit who wants to wander through the pack.
We were at the Canada/Dominion Day display in Humber Bay several years ago on a friend's boat and had our rode cut by a moron in an i/o cruiser. If we'd had a kellet on the rode, we probably would have been alright.
BTW - I wouldn't want to leave an anchor on the bow while racing, weight or no weight - it's a guaranteed snarler/ripper during chute dowses.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
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It certainly has been informative and has made me rethink my options. The anchor clips are a convenient place to keep my Danforth but it's esthetically displeasing. That said, it's a boat! I know quite a number of people who jib-and-mail race as well as one design and while some remove their anchors from the bow (mostly the one-designers) for the duration of a race, others leave them on. Purists may disagree, but I can't think the 20 pounds or so of an anchor makes that much difference when you're talking an all-up boat weight of three tons. I can't recall who makes the clips I have but you'll find them holding Danforths or their clones on many a bowrail. I'll check for a manufacturer this evening and post a follow-up note unless someone beats me to it with the informatin. Best.
Ken Pole
Santiva
Ottawa
Ken Pole, Ottawa
1975 Mark III Santiva
Offline
Anchor clips made by Davis, but their website -- <A href="http://www.davisnet.com/marine/products/marine_product.asp?pnum=2200">http://www.davisnet.com/marine/products/marine_product.asp?pnum=2200</A>, says they've been discontinued. I believe I saw some for sale at htt:/www.boatforsale.net in their classifieds under gear and/or accessories or somesuch. Good luck.
Ken Pole
Santiva
Ottawa
Ken Pole, Ottawa
1975 Mark III Santiva
Offline
I use a 12 lb. "cannon ball" used by commercial fishermen and available at any marine store, at least out here on the coast. It's a lead ball with a little metal loop embedded in it, making it easy to attach a line; I use about a 1/4" line. I use a carabiner to attach it to the anchor rode after the anchor has been set, then run it down the rode to about 5' to 10' (depending on the tide predictions) from the bottom (reassuring to watch the rode straighten right out vertical from the bow). Seems to me you can reduce the amount of rode which is critical in crowded anchorages. I like 3:1 at least, even with the kellet but tough to find sometimes so I am forced to go with 2:1 and have never had a problem, but never faced with a real significant blow at night either. I have a friend with a C&C 25 who uses a kellet (he made his own) who experienced in excess of 25 knots of wind with all sorts of boats dragging into him, but who remained securely anchored himself. He had 3:1 rode at the time. After his experience, I wouldn't leave home with one.
Fred
Lark
Hi I'm planning to install an anchor roller and windlass on my mark III. If the photos that you mention might be of use in your estimation could you please forward them to me? Thanks Pierre Mercier on Mowzer Cat.
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Pierre,
Please send me an email at the address above and I will send the photos to you.
Mike M
SV Wind Horse
#375
Galveston, Tx
Mike M
SV Wind Horse
#375
Galveston, Tx
Offline
Times New Roman" size=3>Ken;
Times New Roman" size=3>There are many installations of a “chain locker” (which around the great lakes and on our smaller vessels is actually a little bit of chain and mostly anchor rode), some by the manufacturers and some by owners as you’re contemplating.yle="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The good ones; have a hawse hole and pipe large enough to allow the rode to easily fall into the deep locker, are drained with at least one drain either through the stem or to one side but in either case at the very bottom of the locker; have ventilation into the fore cabin allowing the air flow to dry the rode completely and; have easy, quick access to the locker from the fore cabin in case there are any hockles in the rode.
Times New Roman" size=3>The upside to a stem drain is that it typically won’t require a topsides thru-hull that is necessary if you were to drain to port or starboard.yle="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The down side is that the locker should be deep enough to allow the rode to fall into the locker, so the stem drain is necessarily low and subject to water intake if you were to leave calm waters and venture into the open waters of the lake and plow into three or four footers.yle="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>But that is true of a deeply placed side drain as well.yle="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I’m not a fan of draining the chain locker to the bilge.yle="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Roger’s comments about letting the rode dry on deck likely serves him well but I’ve never been able to do that as I’m usually sailing off the hook and need the rode off the deck.
Times New Roman" size=3>The ventilation from the hawse hole alone is usually not enough to effectively dry the rode or to prevent the rode and locker from growing mold and mildew so sealing the locker with a gasketed removable bulkhead may not be your best solution.yle="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>You may want to consider a louvered, hinged door for both quick access and ventilation.yle="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>This is akin to hanging your wet sheets and lines in the cabin or the lazarette to dry after you’ve been sailing.
Times New Roman" size=3>There are many good comments from the forum participants and David’s regarding sealing the hawse hole thru-deck is extremely important. yle="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I’m an avid single-hander so am also a fan of dropping the anchor off the stern and walking the rode to the bow as has been described.yle="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>When picking up, I’ll hang the wet rode on the pushpit till drained and dry or until I use it again at the end of the day.Scott Schoeler, MKIII, "Scot-Free"
Scott Schoeler, Hull 858, "Scot-Free"
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