This Forum is supported by C&C 27 owners like you whose membership in the C&C 27 Association makes possible this Forum and the accompanying site. Thank you, members, for your continuing commitment.
You are not logged in.
Pages: 1
1>[Moved from "What to look for?"]
David---I know there are several posts about the prospects of replacing the A-4 with a diesel-----I'm interested in the results of your personal investigation---and what you selected (my choice would be the Yanmar 2GMF---) . Also, what install problems you have considered.
Dave Tinder
DAWN BREAKER Mk3
Ft Myers
Offline
My personal investigation was simple, even simple-minded. I knew from Ralph Ainslie's contribution to the Black Arts pages on Hyperion's engine that the Yanmar engines were a close match in size and form to the A4, that Ralph had had little difficulty in installing the engine and that it was reasonably priced. I also knew Yanmar as being long-lived engines with good support by the Toronto-area distributor, both for boat builders and for individuals.
Once I established that the current 2YM15 engine (see http://www.yanmarmarine.com/products/pdf/GM_YM/2YM15_TechData.pdf ) was effectively the same size and configuration, the choice was quite simple. I was also assured that my 7/8" shaft would be fine and that I would not need a new one. The prop is an open question; won't decide that until we're in the water.
Much of what I found replicates what Ralph learned. The engine requires wider angle irons on top of the fibreglass bed, raised about 5/8" above the level of the old beds. Yanmar's standard L exhaust doesn't work, so we're rigging a replacement now (I'll probably post some pics as an addendum to Ralph's photos when we're done). The old s/s pot watertrap doesn't meet Yanmar specs, so we're putting in a Vetus watertrap. Ralph made a stainless steel exhaust riser, but I think we're just going to loop the hose up high in the stern. A siphon break is tbd.
One surprise is that the engine is much shorter than an A4 (duh), so it's had to be moved a bit aft. The remaining inch that it couldn't be moved has been bridged by a DriveSaver coupling.
The instrument panel (tach, key, several idiot lights) is smaller than the original panel, so we put some black plastic over the original hole. Wiring is via a harness with plugs.
Throttle and shift will be via the original Morse levers. A minor issue here is that the Yanmar shift is from a bracket on top of the engine to a lever near the bottom of the transmission (in other words, up and down) so the shift cable has to make a 90-degree turn. The heavy shift cable required to handle an A4 transmission won't make that turn in less than about a 4-ft radius, so we're modifying the Morse gear slightly to use a second, more flexible throttle cable for shifting (you can shift the Yanmar with a finger-tip, so this cable is more than man enough for the task).
The tank is getting a new return lineand the fuel line will have a Racor to replace the old CAV filter. Nastiest task so far has been pumping the old gas out of the tank; I hate the smell of gasoline.
I think that's it. As I said, once we're finished, I'll probably add some pics to Ralph's where my installation differs. Any more questions, let me know.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Last edited by (2005-04-23 05:33:04)
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Offline
I've installed a dozen or so 1, 2, 3 GM series in a variety of boats---mostly 6600lb USN double ender whaleboats (26'). I had one 3 GM that had in excess of 20,000 hrs---with only minor stuff going bad--eg, starters, injectors, etc. I see from your link that the 2, 3 GM's have been replaced by the YM's. They all jump around the engine compartment-----just don't watch them and let the "spongy" mounts do their thing. Yanmar likes to see these little guys run at 80%-----you'll find that uncomfortable-----I would guess 2000-2300 rpms will yield close to hull speed on our boats with the YM15. You might consider "bio-bore" in your tank---as it is doubfull you'll consume 20 gal----unless you motor to Florida. Even the 3 cyls get down to 1/4 gph if you're gentle with them. I will take a closer look re the exhaust elbow (riser)----measurements. All the engines I installed came with the gooseneck vs. the straight. As you know, the electrics are basically "plug and play". Pls update me with any caveats as your install moves ahead. TksDave Tinder
DAWN BREAKER Mk3
Ft Myers
Just a quick note. David mentioned that the engine was much shorter than the A4. I set mine to give me room for a gooseneck exhaust manifold that I manufactured and compinsated for any distance change by making a new longer prop shaft to suit.
Ralph Ainslie
"Hyperion"
I really enjoy my little Atomic 4. If any of you that have replaced, or are thinking of replacing end up with a surplus Atomic 4 please let me know. I'm not going to spend alot of money, but I'd love a spare engine to tinker with, rebuild etc.
Chris
Chris,
I have an A-4 that I retreived last summer from a salvage yard in Wilmington, NC. It's a late model, seems to have had fresh water cooling--has brackets for additional pumps and fittings--and spins. I know nothing else about the motor, but have kept it covered outside here in NC. If you are still interested, I'll send pictures...
Best,
chuck
David---I'm wondering how the Yanmar install is going--and if you have gained further "enlightenment" and/or caveats.Dave Tinder
DAWN BREAKER Mk3
Ft Myers
>I'm wondering ... if you have gained further "enlightenment" and/or caveats.
Yes, I have. When you ask someone to order something, make sure that person follows through and gets the item immediately, rather than putting the item on his calendar to order when he thinks you will actually need it. As of today, the required new watertrap - not actually ordered until recently and subsequently found to be out of stock - will arrive "tomorrow" (but then, as of Wednesday last, the required watertrap was due to arrive "tomorrow").
Fortunately, friends will tow us out and back into the club lagoons for races and the weather is too foul for pleasure jaunts.
One issue that has arisen, not just with my boat but with a 36 owned by a former 27 sailor is that of shift cables (I mentioned this earlier in this thread, but didn't realize that it was going to be such an issue). A4's require a cable about the thickness of my middle finger to handle the shift load, while the Yanmar needs only a throttle-size cable. You can't use the A4 cable, though, because the A4 shifts with a fore-and-aft motion, while the Yanmar shifts up-and-down. The A4 shift cable isn't long enough for this change of direction nor is it flexible enough to make the necessary turn in the space provided, so you have to get a thinner, more flexible shift cable. Probably this isn't a problem if you use the Yanmar control - see Ralph Ainslie's setup in Black Arts - but I wanted to use my existing control mechanism, the standard for tiller-steered Mk III's and IV's, a Morse control that mounts on the side of the cockpit.
Getting the cable isn't hard (it's only money), but adapting the existing mountings requires some thought. My solution for the Morse was simple and appears to work (but took me about three hours' fiddling to get right). I'll post a picture "tomorrow" when everything is finished.
If you have a binnacle, retrofitting the smaller cable is absurdly difficult. I wasn't around for the fun, but the mechanics who were working on the 36 still haven't stopped swearing about the seemingly endless parade of little difficulties and corresponding, time-consuming improvisations.
Three other things:
1. "little things" take a ridiculous amount of time in the confined space of a 27 (but you knew that already). Just removing the old wire and other crud, then installing a made-up harness took about two hours when all is said and done.
2. There is no better time to service sea-cocks than when the engine is out.
3. C&C screwed down the battery hold-downs with carbon screws and mine were totally rotted (years ago my wife sailed an overnighter in which they got hit hard enough to wash the spreaders - the batteries broke loose and made a most unpleasant mess). With the engine out, it's easy to get under the plywood platform and bolt the wretched things down.
When I know more, I'll let you know.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Last edited by (2005-05-16 06:25:36)
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Offline
Chuck,
Sorry I've been off line for a couple of weeks. As I said, I'm not interested in spending a great deal of money, and shipping from North Carolina might be costly, but if your interested in getting rid of it???
Send me a couple of pictures and an idea of what you want for it.
I've inserted a couple of 9's in my email address to hopefully confuse the spam artists. Obviously just remove the 999's before attempting to send
Chris (<A href="mailto:cphippen@utilitieskingston.999com">cphippen@utilitieskingston.999com</A>)
Chuck,
Do you still have the Atomic 4?
Sean K
Pages: 1