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Yesterday we drove 5 hours each way to look at a 1972 27' C&C. The plate on the transom reads "270162 72". I am sorry to report that it has not recieved the care and attention that the members of this forum give their own vessels. It was a beauitful boat, in its day and it reinforced our desire to someday own a C&C.
The price of this boat reflected its condition and makes it tempting. However, if we are going to pay big bucks to restore and equip this boat to it's former glory, perhaps we should just take the purchase price and the restoration dollars and buy a better example.
Our examination did reveal some areas of concern that I would like some input on. Additionally, I would really appreciate it if any one would like offer some advice, either on this forum or by email. My email is [deleted]. This will be our first full sized boat.
The hull looked good. There were no blisters. The port side, above the waterline had 5 spots that were patched. That leads me to think it may have been grounded. If it was, what other damage should I expect to find?
The decks seemed solid. They have been painted at one time. After the paint job, it looks like the starboard side chain plate was remounted, slightly ahead of where it once was. The seam where the bulkhead in the hanging closet meets the hull was cracked and split from the top down about 6 inches. There was slight crazing around the port side chain plate. It did feel solid.
The cushions were a complete mess. The boat did not seem too well cared for. We didn't get to see the sails or hear the engine. (Atomic V). If these areas recieved the same treatment as the rest of the boat, that concerns us. I think our next step is to speak to the owner directly, not the broker. After that, a survey will be in order. I will have to try to find a surveyor in that area who can do this for me. The broker didn't seem to interested in recommending anyone, nor did he really seem to think that a survey would be worthwhile on vessel in this price category.
Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks in advance, Glen
Information and advice should be posted in the Forum unless it's waaay off the topic of 27's - public postings mean everyone learns. Thank you.
Last edited by (2005-04-17 07:47:28)
Glen,</SPAN>
</SPAN>Some thoughts. First you do not say where this boat is located which will have bearing on suggesting a surveyor. </SPAN>
</SPAN>Talking to the owner may or may not give you any insight and getting a $300 survey on a $1000 boat may seem foolish unless the surveyor finds something that makes the boat beyond salvage. Who needs a boat you can t sell or sail? If you do speak to the owner be cautious about giving him a free survey (yours). </SPAN>
</SPAN>Finally when I purchased Pura Vida it was a start from scratch job. There is still a lot of work to do, but cushions, sails, running rigging, etc. are easy to change. Standing rigging, motor and deck work can be expensive but cheaper than a new boat. And why choose any boat with a lesser pedigree?</SPAN>
</SPAN>Best of luck.
Mike M
SV Pura Vida
#375
Galveston Bay
Mike M
SV Wind Horse
#375
Galveston, Tx
Offline
I would not even think of buying an older boat without a surveyor with a moisture meter. I am not an surveyor or an expert, but I have had had discussions on the issue. I was told that if a balsa core deck reads over 20% that usually means a little bit of water, a dry deck is usually 5-10%. Problems usually arise when the readings are in the 30-50% range. If the balsa core deck gets saturated with water, the fibreglass will eventually delaminate from the balscore and the boat can loose its structural integrity, the deck then becomes soft/spongee and cracks. If you expect delamination, light knocking with a rubber mallet can sometimes help determine if the deck has become saturated and or delaminated. The deck usually sounds different in problem areas. (probably best to leave this to an expert if you don't know what your doing)
Be sure to check around chain plates and hull for moisture penetration, cracking, or soft spots. Also check around thru hulls or deck fittings. Leaking/Rotting Chainplates are also common in uncared for boats, because of the stress loads up in on this area and the seal usually gets broken, water finds its way in if not attended to.
Mostboats older boats will have some moisture in them, the question is what you are prepared to accept and what the surveyor recommends should be done. Ie recore deck, rebedding all deck hardware, nothing, etc.
Understand that a moisture meter measures density so if you are measuring a solid glass area, you may get a higher reading. Also a lead keel is going to read high but thats not water thats lead, make sure the person using the moisture meter is experienced and is not measuring something other than water and just thinks its water.
Regards
Cameron
Let me say upfront that this does not sound like a diamond in the rough, a boat that just needs some TLC. It sounds like a potential disaster area. The broker sounds like he's all too aware of it, a man who wants to move the goods, but doesn't want to associate himself too closely with the sale. Why doesn't he want you to survey it? Because he knows the boat is either a genuine write-off or a project boat for someone who has done the work before and understands what he is getting into. No survey , no sale - and any survey should include engine, rig and sails.
My reading of the major points you mention: <ul><li>Absence of blisters is not in itself a recommendation. 27's don't seem particularly prone to them. Patching of the gelcoat (the five spots) may only mean that the owner was careless in the use of fenders; my boat has several patches on it and they are superficial. Grounding and drying out might rough up the keel and the hull at the waterline (see the picture of Lark in Tales to see how the boat might lie if dried out). Where you want to look is inside, which is difficult to do because of interior furniture. However, if damage has propagated through the laminate to show up inside, it's much more serious.
<li>The separated tabbing of the bulkhead is of greater concern. Three possibilities: an error in the factory is possible in which case the whole boat is suspect; the bulkhead is rotten and has released the tabbing, or the boat has been allowed to pound against a dock or rocks, thus releasing the tabbing. Any of these constitutes a "don't walk away - run" situation.
<li>Crazing may be cosmetic, or it may be an indication of underlying weakness (see the pictures of Critical Path's deck in Black Arts. A moisture meter, read by an experienced surveyor, will tell one from the other. More alarming is the moved chain plate. Why was it moved? What is it attached to now?
<li>Let's presume the engine and sails have had the same careful care as the cushions. Cushions, $2,500. Sails, $4,000. Engine $3,000 to rebuild, $7,000 to replace. Mike is right that things can be replaced, but if you end up replacing too many items, you could end up paying a lot more than the boat will ever be worth.</ul>At this point, ask yourself, "do I want a boat with serious structural problems that will sit in my drive for a couple of years while I struggle with it?", or "do I want a boat that's a bit shabby but that I can sail now while improving it with masses of elbow grease?" The boat you're looking at now might show poorly but have good bones, but I suspect it shows poorly because it has been damaged, then "repaired" by someone who didn't know what he was doing.
Nearly 1,000 27's were built and there's bound to be an affordable good one out there somewhere. So far, all you've invested in this boat is a long drive. Drop it and keep looking.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Last edited by (2005-04-18 00:57:54)
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Offline
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