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I see a post about replacing on a mk 5-----anyone have info on replacing or repairing on a mk 111? There is a good post on the c/c website----but not specific as to what model.Dave Tinder
DAWN BREAKER Mk3
Ft Myers
G'day, Dave. Last Friday of winter up here -- finally. This has been a brutal one. At any rate, with regard to hatch replacement: companionway or forward? If the former, I did a complete rebuild on my Mark III last fall. If the latter, the whole assembly or just the acrylic? I've removed the badly crazed acrylic on mine and as soon as some decent spring weather arrives, I'll be installing it in the frame.
Ken Pole
Santiva
Ottawa
Ken Pole, Ottawa
1975 Mark III Santiva
Offline
Y0!!!!!!!on the winter thing-----forward hatch---tksDave Tinder
DAWN BREAKER Mk3
Ft Myers
Just the acrylic or the entire assembly?
Ken Pole
Santiva
Ottawa
Ken Pole, Ottawa
1975 Mark III Santiva
Offline
I would be happy just replacing the "lens" (as Bowmar calls it)---but would consider total replacement---I'm not much on messing with things that don't leak---so would prefer not to jerk the whole thing.Dave Tinder
DAWN BREAKER Mk3
Ft Myers
Replacing the "lens" is no big deal; it simply requires care and patience in equal amounts. The first job, assuming your Mark III installation is the same as mine, is removal of the old lens so that it can be used as a pattern by any reputable plastics shop. I think mine was about $70, drilled and ready to install. I opted for half-inch Lexan rather than acrylic; I know it scratches more easily and is more susceptible to ultraviolet degradation (we're talking years!) but I liked the concept of extra strength in something I'd be walking (jumping?) on. Once you've extracted the eight screws around the perimeter, carefully run a very sharp blade around the sealant and it should pop out with minimal effort. I haven't done a reinstallation yet; I'm waiting for warmer weather) but it should be a no-brainer in that once a bed of sealant has been laid in between the frame bottom and between the lens and the frame, the screws should be tightened almost all the way. Once the sealant has had a chance to partially cure, tighten them down the rest of the way. There are obviously a number of sealant options but I'd likely opt for something short of 3M5200; I think there's a 5000 that's more suitable but you might want some local opinion on that. Let me know how it works out. Cheers.
Sorry, neglected to identify myself in the reply about hatch lens replacement.
Ken Pole
Santiva
Ottawa
Ken Pole, Ottawa
1975 Mark III Santiva
Offline
I had to remove and rebed my hatch. The removal was the trickey part. It appeared at first the hatch was not going to come off the deck even after cutting most of the old sealant. I then asked another sailer and he said the key was not forcing it, but constant and steady pressure. Sure enough with constant and steady pressure the hatch very slowly peeled off the deck and I was able to clean it off and rebed it without any damage. The trick is getting one corner started and keeping the steady pressure (dont force it)
Regards
Cameron
C&C 27 MKV Sail#575
Windsor, Ontario
Hatches on the Mk III and Mk IV were made by Atkins & Hoyle of Toronto, who bonded the plexiglass into the frame. This can be replaced in the original manner but it's not cheap. The main reason for doing it the original way is that running screws through the material is not the ideal way of securing plexiglass and Lexan.
As to making an original-type repair, the page on replacing windows in Black Arts is about to be augmented with the following text.
"Plexiglass or Lexan?
Your replacement material may not be plexiglass, though that is the less expensive choice. Plexiglas is a tradename for a brand of acrylic sheet; most people call this material plexiglass (and it's usually spelled that way) so that's what we'll use here. Lexan is polycarbonate sheet; again the tradename is becoming the generic name.
Your favourite sailing magazine's fear-mongering articles about rogue waves may have convinced you that you need the ultimate in strength, which means Lexan. Lexan is also bullet-proof (important on a sailboat). According to the Lewmar hatch-repair supplier, Select Plastics, as quoted in Sailing and their site's FAQ, Lexan's strength and clarity degrade more quickly than plexiglass', plus plexi has better resistance to scratches and cleaning chemicals. The result is a longer useful life at considerably less cost.
C&C Hatches
With the Mk III, C&C made the move from a fibreglass to an aluminum-framed hatch by Atkins & Hoyle in Toronto. If your hatch leaks around the plexi, they can replace it for you. The cost in 2000 was approximately C$400.00. In the US, Select Plastics (see above) fixes all makes of hatches; their price is not known."
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Offline
David---Since I have 8 screws in the hatch---may I infer that some guy in the last century opted for "I'll replace it myself with screws" vs sending it in to be re-bonded? Best, DaveDave Tinder
DAWN BREAKER Mk3
Ft Myers
> may I infer that some guy in the last century opted for "I'll replace it myself with screws" vs sending it in to be re-bonded?
I think that's a safe assumption. If he just ran them through the plexiglass and into the alloy frame you could probably have the hatch re-bonded. You don't have to take off the whole hatch – just pull the hinge pin and send in the "lid". Atkins & Hoyle normally replaces the gasket at the same time.
Alternatively, you could try a screw/caulk combo. This might or might not hold up, but you'd be risking a piece of plexiglass ($40-$50?) vs $400 for Atkins & Hoyle or Select to do it the "right" way. I've never seen a screwed hatch (mine is the first I've ever heard of failing) so I haven't a clue about durability, but I suspect that a bonded hatch would be superior.
Here's what little I know about screws in plexiglass: the author of the article referred to in the Windows section (who used to work for C&C and who now works for a company that repairs a lot of C&C's) regards screws as a poor solution for windows because plexi expands and contracts so much, but suggests that if you want to use screws, to do the following:
<ul><li> drill the holes in the plexiglass over-size (his example is that if you would normally drill 5/32" for a 1/8" screw, jump to 1/4");
<li> finish the edges of the plexi to #120 paper, being sure to eliminate all rough edges from which a crack might propagate;
<li> use flathead screws with cup (finishing) washers to spread the load as much as possible and to trap the caulk or alternatively, an external frame that matches the shape of the edge of the lens similar to the frames shown in the Windows section;
<li> use Dow Corning 795 glazier's caulk, which is both tenacious and able to stretch or compress 50% without compromising the seal.</ul>
Good luck.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Last edited by (2005-03-21 09:53:15)
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Offline
David---your points well taken. I like the idea of the mega-oversize pilot hole---and letting the finish washer spread the load and also catch the goop. An aside: Bowmar can offer replacement lenses for their hatches---but the won't tell you how to install them---or what sealant to use. They consider this to be proprietary info----and should best be left to the pros. Best,Dave Tinder
DAWN BREAKER Mk3
Ft Myers
Atkins & Hoyle will sell you the necessary lens, cleaning compound and sealant but if I recall correctly, it's about $175 and I'm not sure they're allowed to ship the cleaning compound, it's so toxic. However, they will tell you what it is, so if they can't ship the cleaner, you could probably buy it nearer home.
I looked the stuff up and the associated cautions included sterility, runny nose, blindness, loss of hair and instant death, so I decided to let them fix my hatch for me.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Offline
Try using a 1/8 or 1/16 Tremco glazing tape on the frame work then apply a small bead of silicone around the outer edge. Be sure to use a product that can be exposed to ultra violet ray. Dow Corning 795 or 999. This is a excellent sealant designed for structural glazing on exterior applications. You may want to put a bond breaker in the joint to avoid 3 sided adhesion.
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