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I currently race my 1987 C&C27 (shoal draft) on Wednesday nights out of my local club. I have had a lot of trouble pointing (partially due to shoal draft and roller furling) (partial due to being a fairly new skipper). I am looking for anything that might help me point higher to the wind and avoid pinching. I have found this and other C&C sites very informative. While I know my shoal draft is not recommended for racing, I am racing it anyways.
I am wondering if a cunningham might help the draft on the main. I currently have not rigged a cunningham. I also do not have an adjustable baby stay. I have put on a 4:1 back stay adjuster but am think I need more.
I am wondering if anyone has a picture or a description of how to rig a cunningham on a MKV. I am thinking of rigging a small 4:1 purchase to the mast step up to the main, however I am not sure if this is the best approach. I am also thinking of making the baby stay adjustable.
I am also thinking of replacing my main sail. My main is original and in good condition, but based on its age it is likely the draft may be streched permanently aft. I want to try everything to bring the draft forward for pointing on the old main and as a last resort buy a new main. I am not sure if backstay tension, outhaul and main halyard tension is enough. Any thoughts would be apreciated.
Regards
Cameron
I have a Mk 3 so I really can't comment on your cunningham or babystay arrangement.
However, pointing is a function that is comprised of more than just the mainsail.
Many factors have to work in a harmonious way. You never mentioned the condition of your headsail, forestay tension, luff tension, sheeting angles, nor rig tuning and set up. All these factors work in conjunction with the main.
I suggest that you get out a local sailmaker rep in your area that your thinking of doing business with in the future and take him for a sail and see what he says about your boat and gear.
Also, if your just getting started and your sails aren't in to bad of condition you should ask him if he can just recut them for now and try and get another season out of them while your still learning the tricks that make your boat go faster in the various conditions and let your crew distroy your old rags first.
Then, after you've got her going as fast as you can with the old rags and mastered your tactics on the course and still haven't won your club championship, go out and by your new sails and hope to blow them all away !
Good luck and sail the lifts upwind.
P.S.- where do you hail from ?
Yogi Bear
I sail out of the Windsor Yacht Club. I agree there is a large number of factors affecting my pointing ability. The fact that I am a new skipper and have trouble with pinching and footing is the #1 reason. But I wish to address the others as well.
I am still having trouble with rig tension and may get a tension meter to make sure all is per recommendations. I have a fairly good mylar jib off of a racing S2 7.9 which fit fairly well onto the roller furling (the furler is shorter than a regular MKV rig). I do have some trouble with sheeting angles as it seems I need it as far back as possible (and therfore on the inboard track on the MKV) at most times while pointing, this could be causing a stall and I will be reviewing in the spring. I also think I need to shorten my luff on the jib as it does not seem to get enough halyard tension to really pull the draft forward, due to the top of the furling gear reaching the top of the mast. I am tempted to get rid of furling al togetther and buy a 170 for the power which seems to be needed to get the boat pointing, but that would be alot of money spent before I address all of the other issues..
I have set up a toping lift and downhaul similair to a typical deck layout.,but I do need to add a spinaker halyard as my boat is equiped with 2 genoa halyards only. I've been using one of the genoa halyards for the spinaker (which some times makes rolling up the jib difficult) I've taken the mast down this year and plan to add a block to the top of the mast (although I am having trouble finding something to attach a block to as the shoal draft MKV does not have the same mast head as regular MKV's, but it is the same height.)
In order to further train the crew and myself I plan to go out 2 nights per week next season <img src="emoticons/icon_frown.gif">1 night training & one night racing). Last year it was next to impossible to teach while racing.
Any other recommendations would be appreciated.
Regards Cameron
Cameron,
I had the same pointing problem with my C&C 25 which was subsequently stretched to make the "MK V 27"). This was a common problem with the boat, and was supposidly addressed with improvements in the keel in later 25s and the Mk V. While a stretched out main can seriously hurt your pointing, there's only so far you can go with a shoal keel. I'm sure you don't want to hear this, but if you're going to spend a lot on $$$ . . . . at least know what you're dealing with. I would get a sailmaker to look at the main. If it's in good condition he can cut and resew to reshape.
Another option is to approach the rating committee and try to get your rating adjusted. Been there, done that too. Won't get you to win any regattas, but maybe help your ego.
By the way, I thoroughly enjoyed my '25, other than pointing it was one of the best and most enjoyable boats I ever sailed. The ergonomics of the cockpit are so much better than the old 27s.
Warren Smith
Serendipity
Galveston Bay, Texas
1. Cunningham: on my MKV we run a 4 to 1 purchase with a V cleat - run from the mast step to the main cringle. It's cheap and easy, and works fine.
2. More cunningham won't help your pointing.
3. If its the original 1987 main it's done - a new one will definitly add speed.
4. The new main won't help pointing much.
5. Forestay tension is a must - you need 8" of mast bend in 10 knots - lots of backstay = lots of forestay tension, which will help pointing.
6. Think about getting rid of the roller furling - it's slow.
7. A good genoa cut for the baot will do more for pointing than a new main.
Summary: new genoa, no roller furling - THEN buy a new main!
Jim W
Distant Thunder MKV Hull #69
Thank you for your reply, I guess the cuningham is more about flattening and depowering than pointing. I was thinking of getting a 170 and taking the 3 second penalty as it would probably be worth it. I shall pose this question as a new item for the forum.
Regards
Cameron
UNDERDOG MKV SAIL#575
Cameron,
With all due respect to Jim, I agree and disagree. A new jib would help the most on pointing, but a baggy main will definately hurt pointing. Getting the main flatter will help. On my Mk 1 I have what I call a "half-life" main. A little baggy but a good full-batten quality sail. My solution if I really need to point is to take a reef. The effect is kind of like flattening with a cunningham, allows me to sheet closer without flogging, point a little better, and most of the drive comes from the jib anyway. Don't be afraid to experiment.
Of course, I am a cruiser and don't race anymore. My need to point is related to navigational targets.
If you really want to learn sail trim, I highly recommend Dennis Conner's "Sail Like a Champion". I think it is out of print, but available used for cheap. It was my bible when I raced a 42' Transpac boat. On that boat there were 9 different ways to shape the main without touching the mainsheet.
Warren Smith
Serendipity
Galveston Bay, Texas
I mentioned to my local sail equipment supplier (and old sail guru) (Duncan) that I was considering buying a 4:1 purchase for a cunningham. He asked me what I was using to reef my sail. As this confused me at first he explained that he never used the fixed hooks on the boom as they always are hard to use and can pinch fingers. He further explained that he removed the fixed hooks for reefing and used a simple S hook to attach to the main sail cringle for the cunningham, which leads down to a block and in turn back to the cockpit to a cleat. This allows someone to add or ease cunnigham from the cockpit and also allows you to use the same S hook on reefs which is much quicker that the fixed boom hooks, and makes it possible to add or release a reef from the cock pit singlehanded.
I plan on using this in the spring
Regards
Cameron Paine
UNDERDOG Sail#575
Windsor, Ontario
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