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I've searched the previous 20 plus postings on this subject, but am unable to find the help I need for my Mk V.
Smoke has 2 batteries, number 1 slightly to port of the centreline and immediately ahead of the fuel tank ( so about level with the transmission, and sitting on a shelf ), which does the house lights etc. Then number 2 hidden behind the fuel tank, which starts the one lung Yanmar.
Number 1 tests at 12.6 volts one week after I charged both of them, but number 2 was 7.5 volts, so I suspect needs a Canadian Tire replacement. It was a little unwilling last September.........
That number 2 is in a position that requires a Chinese acrobat to even get the meter probes to its terminals, never mind removing it to instal a replacement. There are fuel hoses, and the space is really tight. Is this a Smoke problem which was improved on following Mark V's, or have others wrestled with this difficulty?
Any help from other Mk V owners would be welcome please.
On this subject, I have installed a ProMariner ProSport 2 battery charger. It is marine specific and good for gasoline engined boats, I used it once and it works fine as far as I can tell. Thoughts???
Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002
Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002
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Hi. My 1987 Mk V has both batteries located between the fuel tank and transmission. Have to lift them over the prop shaft and muffler - awkward, but quite manageable to remove/replace. I need two new ones this season. Short of something superpro, Canadian tire looks best. It has two versions of marine battery - marine starting and marine (something else).
Barry Oasis 1987 Mk V
Hi Alan:
My 1985 has one battery located between the fuel tank and the transmission and the second forward in the cockpit locker.
Given the need for these boats to reduce weight in the cockpit, I'd like to believe the factory didn't install that battery behind your fuel tank! After you've gone through the agony of removing it, I suggest you do yourself a big favor and don't re-install it back there.
Fair Winds,
Tony Jeske
FLYING CIRCUS Mk V #581
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Are you confident that you can live up to the image conveyed by this "ProMariner ProSport 2 battery charger"? It sounds like you are going to have to grow a mane of chest hair, along with affecting a pipe and sou'wester at all times (I believe the ProMariners' Code allows the pipe to be put aside during the hours of sleep, as long as the jaw is kept clenched in manly fashion and directed into the prevailing gale at all times).
There's a fair bit of useful general information on battery charging in West Marine's Product Advisors section. It's general knowledge, rather than products-to-buy, so broadly useful.
Based on something I read on one of West's pages, I bought a battery combiner. This has kept Towser's batteries topped up with no thought or effort on my part. I bought mine from West, the predecessor to this model made by a small specialist company.
I used to buy Surrette premium batteries but an electronics expert told me they're overkill in our typical 6-months-on, 6-months-off pattern of use. Cdn Tire, he said, has reasonable batteries and their guarantee is as good as if not better than anyone else's. I've had no reason to regret the switch.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
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David, that image brings back memories of 1950's Players Navy Cut cigarettes, which arrived in round tins of 50 smokes ( good word...).Or the RNLI lifeboat skipper of the Eastbourne lifeboat, which was launched down a feasome ramp into a howling gale to save some clown who had failed to give Beachy Head lighthouse a fair clearance. I even went out with them long ago......but no pipe.
I have read your considerable input on batteries of 5 years ago in this Forum, and feel that the "Crappy Tire" units should be fine. I just need to change the foul location of that number 2 battery...
Thanks
Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002
Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002
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Thanks Tony, it seems that C&C probably did instal the second battery aft of the fuel tank, using that impossible space to prevent a waste of more useable space, but corrected their error quickly. You're right, it is as far aft as it could be, so bad in all aspects. I will change it, just that new location needs working out.
Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002
Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002
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Thanks Barry, that makes more sense. Are your batteries both in the fore-and-aft direction on a longer shelf, or in the athwartships direction on a wider shelf? Lifting over the prop shaft and muffler is easy compared to the gymnastics required to reach and move the behind-the-fuel-tank location. Thats' the voice of experience from last Saturday.
Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002
Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002
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Alan, I used to indulge in Surrette batteries, but the local supply for these dried up and I moved on to alternatives. A Surrette would typically last me 7 or 8 seasons. At one point, I sought to economize by buying a Crappy Tire marine deep-cycle battery on sale. It was great for the first season, but by the second season it no longer had enough oomph to crank my Yamaha 9.9 outboard (I still had the 25 at the time). It took 3 trips back to Crappy Tire and a lot of argument to get a warranty replacement. Five years ago, I replaced the batteries in Carriden. I went to the Battery Sell here in Bronte and bought a pair of Trojan flooded, lead-acid, deep-cycle batteries, Series 27 size. They were slightly more expensive than Crappy Tire, but they are a premium battery (by the way, the Battery Sell offers a discount to club members). After 5 years, they are still going strong and I depended on them last year for the Lake Ontario 300. I leave the batteries in the boat for the winter and just plug in the charger a few times over the winter to top them up.
By the way, for my day sailing and week-night racing I do not make a distinction between starting battery and house battery. I buy identical batteries and then just switch between them to even out the wear and tear. On odd-numbered days I use Battery No. 1, on even-numbered days I use Battery No. 2. This seems to be paying off in terms of longevity and reliability. The Atomic 4 is not hard to crank, so it is happy to fire up from an ordinary deep-cycle.
Marcus from Carriden
Mk III, Hull #847
Oakville, Ontario
Marcus Opitz,
Formerly from Carriden, Mk III, Hull #847,
now skippering "Everdina," a 1975 Ontario 32
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Thanks Marcus, I like your date and battery-use trick.
Where is the Battery Sell store in Bronte please, I can't find it in 411.ca ? Once I solve the puzzle of the number 2 battery location I'll sneak back under the cover and get things sorted out so that I can look after both batteries without being a contortionist. Better for the batteries and me......
Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002
Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002
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Hi. The batteries are end to end between the drive shaft and muffler on one side, and the wall of the quarter berth. Wouldn't be enough room for any other way. It holds two series 27's. I wanted to squeeze one series 27 and one 29, but unless I moved the engine and trans (ya right!), or the fuel tank, couldn't be done. And I concluded the effort required was too much for the benefit gained. I do have a photo if that might help (taken so I could reconnect cables correctly - but then concluded labelling the was far more practical). I remove them every winter. We have no electricity in the storage compound, and it just gets to cold to leave them in the boat, uncharged, all winter. Hope this helps.
Barry,Oasis, 1987 Mk V
Thanks Barry, if you could send me the photo of the way you have the batteries installed on Oasis it would be wonderful. If it were allowed you could sent it as an attachment to an e-mail, but that might draw the wrath of Admin as the Forum rules only allow e-mail exchange when buying or selling an item in the thread.
Is it possible that this Mk V battery location exchange justifies a picture in the thread? Is that possible? Perhaps Admin would come to our rescue?
Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002
Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002
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Oh fearful and capricious Admin, I have read and re-read "Using the Forum" as well as "Using Photos in Your Posts", and am aware that I may be drifting towards the point of excommunication.
My skill with a computer is minimal, and your 'working around' directions to include a picture in a posting is even more mysterious than understanding why C&C placed my second battery in a position that even cockroaches can't reach.
The picture we are discussing might help other Mk V owners, and it would certainly help me, so I prostate myself before you for your words of wisdom please.
Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002
Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002
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Hey Alan, "The Battery Sell" is located on Wyecroft road. Full information can be found at 'thebatterysell.com'.
Alan, please be careful of your tone, for though it is wise to be fearful of the awesome power that is the Admin, and it is true that his wrath can be terrible to behold, I have never found him to be capricious. Indeed, the Admin is a paragon among netizens, a shining light of . . .
Um, I think I hear him coming now . . .
Gotta go. Good-bye.
Marcus from Carriden
Mk III, Hull #847
Oakville, Ontario
Marcus Opitz,
Formerly from Carriden, Mk III, Hull #847,
now skippering "Everdina," a 1975 Ontario 32
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Thanks Marcus, I'll head to Wyecroft Road when I need my new batteries(s). There are differing opinions of the Crappy Tire units, but it is a store that only males can really enjoy on a Saturday afternoon.
Our Admin is no less than a God. He suffers his flock with equanimity, yet despite his self-description as being the God of volcanoes and occasionally capricious, I will always bow to his omnipotence. And thankfully.
I will await his help in the matter of the photo I need as a guide to battery installation in a Mk V. Is that thunder I hear...............?
Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002
Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002
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If you two are quite finished, send the photo to the address in The Fleet and I'll post it. If anyone has any modifications to the heinous standard layout that make sense, a photo in Various Projects might be in order.
You must excuse me now - I think I left my kettle on the volcano.
- Admin
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Barry, as you will have read, if you send an e-mail to [deleted] and attach the picture of your battery location, our Admin will arrange for it to be available for all of us to see and use as needed. Many thanks Barry.
And to Vulcan, my thanks to you for such a neat solution to this puzzler.
Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002
If you want to tell someone my address, please refer to the page where it can be found, rather than reproducing it (For instance, "Send it to the Admin using the address link at the bottom of this page: http://www.cc27association.com/fleet/fleet.html"). All addresses on this site are disguised (by using either "html entities" or Javascript) to reduce the number of e-mail addresses that can be harvested by spammers. You can see what I mean by opening up the page referred to above (go to the page then select your browser's View menu, and go to Page Source or Source this will open the page in html form) -- my address is near the bottom in Javascript -- or any Fleet page, where the address is encoded in entities that include ampersands and number signs. If you want to write your own address in the Forum, I suggest that you write it as "alan at smoke dot com" or similar unless you really want to hear from thousands of your new best friends in Nigeria and sexy young girls in Russia. This seems to protect the address, with the slight disadvantage that it doesn't make a clickable link. Thank you. - Admin
Last edited by (2010-01-26 02:54:55)
Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002
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Photo's have been sent to admin. Hope they help you Allan
Barry, Oasis, 1987 Mk V
This is to Admin
My stupidity knows no bounds, and I am truly sorry for my error. Again my thanks for your help.
Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002
It's not necessary to apologize, nor is there any question of stupidity. You didn't know how I do things and deliberately so; the system I use is intended to make everything look as normal as possible while being, under the hood, totally baffling.
Admin ire is reserved for real crimes. Remember, volcanoes prefer virgins, but it's just a suggestion.
I have the photos and I will place them in this thread, but I'm having problems with the server. Thank you for your patience. Incidentally, the photos show the battery cables attached with wing nuts. FWIW, ABYC (the council, not the club) now recommends the use of nylock nuts or nuts and lock washers. - Admin
Last edited by (2010-01-27 03:05:27)
Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002
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Hi. May I ask what wattage solar panel you use, and do you use it to charge one or two batteries? Could you estimate recharge time if the house battery, for instance, was down to 60% or so?
Thanks. Barry Oasis, 1987 Mk V
The Solar Panel is Canadian Tire model 11-1884, 5.5 W Price $59.
The documentation states the unit will maintain and charge medium to large vehicle batteries: truck, RV, boat.
The system has provided perfect starting power for the past 2 years.
I have not monitored the low charge numbers and do not have the recovery time for the 60% battery charge.
I have 2 batteries on the C&C27 and charge one battery at a time.
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Wind Horse has a 6 watt Siemans charging two group 27s. In the winter the results are a little weak. In the spring, summer and fall it will overcharge the batteries. I need to find a better charge controller than the inexpensive one I bought at West Marine.
Mike M
SV Wind Horse
#375
Galveston, Tx
Mike M
SV Wind Horse
#375
Galveston, Tx
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<img src="http://www.cc27association.com/photos/battery/mkvbattery1.jpg" border="0" width="450" height="338" /><img src="http://www.cc27association.com/photos/battery/mkvbattery2.jpg" border="0" width="450" height="338" />
I noted above that ABYC now recommends nylock nuts or nuts and lock washers rather than wing nuts. The basic setup here is more of an issue. Batteries should be firmly secured on a solid base (these ones may be secured by their bottom flanges, but I can't tell for sure) and they must have their terminals securely covered. If something metal should fall across those leads and terminals (a good solid broach, for instance, displacing a bit of metal gear, or simply someone dropping a tool), there would be hell to pay. I know as I dropped a wrench while changing a battery - it bounced fortunately, but the electric arc was unbelievable. I certainly was glad not to have had a gas engine at that point.
- Admin
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Thanks Barry for sending the photos to Admin, and thanks to Admin for solving the puzzle of transferring them to this thread.
To comment on Admin's concern about securing the batteries, one of mine tipped onto its side when Smoke listed heavily to starboard. That was a direct results of the failure of the hold-down strap, which had been eaten away by battery acid. I have a new one now, and also have a very handsome red platic cover on top of the battery to avoid that arcing possibility. The strap goes over both battery and cover.
I will take some 'before and after' photos as I try to fit both batteries in line ahead, which may involve an extension to the present battery shelf.
Does Distant Thunder or Still Knot Working have any better ideas please?
Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002
[Check the brackets that hold the strap as well as the strap. My hold-down straps ran through nylon brackets held down by 1/2" steel wood screws. They'd rusted, not only destroying themselves but the wood around them. The brackets came off with a distressingly modest tug. Now they're through-bolted with large washers.[/i]</a> . - Admin]
Last edited by (2010-01-28 08:53:50)
Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002
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Barry, from the photos I see that your batteries sit there, naked!!!! Mine are each in a plastic tub, a little larger than the battery, and nearly the same height. Those boxes would trap any escaping acid if something went wrong, avoiding the unpleasant mess described by Towser's David.
The shelf for my number one battery (with its box) is made of fibreglass, with a small flange around the edge, on which the box sits. The shelf has two brackets for the hold-down strap, and I will have a closer look at them after reading Admin's comments.
This whole thing is a continuing tale, and I have to wrestle that number two battery from its hiding hole......
Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002
Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002
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