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I am installing new deck line organizers that require 6 bolts (one for each sheave and one at each end). The original organizer had one bolt in the center that reached through the coach roof deck and headliner to a washer on the inside of the cabin and apparently nothing preventing compression of the headliner to the coach roof deck, plus two screws that penetrated part way into the deck.
I am not certain of the best way to fasten the 6 new bolts on the inside of the cabin. It doesn't make sense to put washers against the headliner, given the 1/4" air gap between the headliner and the coach roof deck. One alternative is to cut six unsightly 3/4" holes in the headliner so I can insert smaller washers on the bolts to lie flat against the inside of the coach roof deck. Or opening up the headliner with a large rectangle to insert a stainless backing plate.
None of these options are appealing: not only unsightly in the cabin, although I could come up with some kind of cover, but also means cutting holes into the headliner and potentially compromising any strength that it might provide the boat in ways I have not considered.
Suggestions?
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"New" 1974 C&C 27 Mk II undergoing refit
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1974 Mark II C&C 27
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Towser's headliner looked like Swiss cheese when we got her because of the plethora of holes in the headliner (all of them were capped with plug inserts, but it was a mess nonetheless). And, of course, I was going to make more holes with my new hardware (deck organizers, line stoppers and cam cleats). The deck organizers were easy as there were no other holes nearby (the previous owner had slted his organizers for a 90-degree turn, which created unnecessary load and friction). I drilled holes from the outside through the liner, then drilled back up into those holes with a hole saw to make appropriate holes for plastic plug inserts (3/4" or 7/8" - can't remember exactly). The washers just fit these holes and seem to be adequate as there is no apparent movement (the line turn is now just 45 degrees so the load isn't high).
In the Swiss-cheesey areas over the galley, I covered the worst areas with white plexiglass that I formed to shape using a cardboard template; the plexi was softened for bending in the oven (ensure wife will be away during the entire operation to minimize outraged objections that greet first essays in plexi-bending - subsequent forays, once wife is assured that oven will not be coated with melted plastic, are friction-free).
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
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Hey Windy,
It sounds like you are planning to install Spinlock organizers. If that is the case, then remember that the endpieces are not load-bearing and do not really need to be through-bolted. I put Spinlocks down on Carriden's cabin-top, 5 sheaves on one side and 4 sheaves on the other. These required 1/4-inch bolts through the centre of each sheave. I opened up the headliner underneath the organizers using a spade drill-bit and then a sanding drum on a rotary tool to enlarge the openings to quasi-rectangles and smooth out the edges. I made the openings large enough that I could fit large "fender" washers to the underside of the cabin-top under the nylock nuts. If you use a single backing plate, then you have to worry about dealing with the cabintop curvature. There should be enough space between the headliner and the underside of the cabintop that the fasteners will not protrude past the headliner. Once the organizers were fastened down, I used pieces of 1/8-inch white plexiglas (acrylic sheet) to cover the holes in the headliner. These were screwed to the headliner with #4 stainless screws and there are two of them, one on each side of the cabin. I found that 1/8-inch sheet is flexible enough that I did not have to pre-shape it with heat, as David did for Towser. I found that I needed to spray-paint the back of the acrylic pieces in order to prevent the "shadow" of the holes showing through.
Remember to use the "drill and fill" technique to protect the balsa core in the cabintop where the bolts are going to go through. For the endpieces on the organizers, I just created "pots" of epoxy within the cabintop balsa core, which then received screws, instead of being through-bolted. I also used some pieces of Starboard to create pads under the organziers which conformed to the shape of the cabin-top, thus providing a flat surface for the organizer itself to mount onto. In the past I have used strips of teak for this purpose, but Starboard is lower maintenance and continues to look good without attention.
The headliner does not provide any appreciable structural integrity for the boat, so don't worry about creating holes in it. Just be careful and measure 3 times before cutting, because none of us want unnecessary holes in our boats.
Good luck and drill carefully!
Marcus from Carriden
Mk III, Hull #847
Oakville, Ontario
Marcus Opitz,
Formerly from Carriden, Mk III, Hull #847,
now skippering "Everdina," a 1975 Ontario 32
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Excellent info, Dave and Marcus, thanks. Got the same opinions locally: headliner can be cut, washers OK instead of backing plate. Your extra detail is very helpful, especially the point that screws are OK at each end of the Spinlock organizer.
Why does the organizer need a hardwood or Starboard base instead of bolting down to the hard point epoxy base that raises up off the cabin roof a bit? Rub protection should the lines contact the base?
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"New" 1974 C&C 27 Mk II undergoing refit
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1974 Mark II C&C 27
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The curve of the deck anywhere that you're likely to locate organizers considerably exceeds the organizer's ability to bend (don't know about Spinlock, but I suspect that their bendability equals that of mine: zero). Therefore one side of the hardwood or Starboard base has to conform to that curvature while the upper side provides a flat mounting surface. You could mould something from epoxy directly to the deck to do this, but like Marcus, I chose Starboard, with its lower-side curvature shaped by a router, as a good-looking and low-maintenance option.
Rub protection shouldn't enter into consideration. If anything, you want to keep the organizer as close to the deck as possible. At its thinnest point, the base is probably is less than 1/8"; if the organizer is properly sited, your lines should have a clean run from the aft end of the coachroof to the organizer and from there to the mast.
Incidentally, Starboard (polyethylene) takes some mental adjustment to work with for someone who is, like me, primarily oriented toward wood. You can cut it with a saw (preferably a very sharp circular saw), a router or a plane, but you have to hit the final shape with those tools. Filing and sanding just make it unattractively fuzzy.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
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I have a bunch of 1/4" plastic used by a local factory that makes stainless steel conveyer belts for the food manufacturing industry. The plastic is part of the conveyor mechanism, so tough and clean. It feels almost greasy, and it does not fracture easily. I used some to bed some tanks in a previous boat. Might make an ideal base if it is UV resistant, but on our Mark II, the old organizers were sitting on a flat epoxy surface someone had made with a form. I had to extend it 1" for the new Spinlock, but I have a solid flat surface. Makes me wonder if I need any additional base, and your comments David seem to support that idea.
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"New" 1974 C&C 27 Mk II undergoing refit
Last edited by (2009-03-02 06:04:09)
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1974 Mark II C&C 27
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