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I am a new owner of a 1972 C&C 27 that I purchased in Victoria, Canada. The old Atomic Four runs alright but has a crack in the head where the oil sender is threaded in at the front of the engine and there seems to be a significant exhaust leak into the boat. The engine is currently fresh water cooled as of three years ago which means that the engine was cooled with saltwater for about 33 years. We have some nasty tidal passes here that require a good motor. I don't think that the engine is worth rebuilding due to the expected rust in the cooling system.
Does anyone have any suggestions for how best to install an outboard motor bracket, given that the rudder sticks out about 20 inches aft of the transom?? I spoke to a shipyard and they said that the transom would have to be reinforced quite a bit and then a long bracket/motor mount would be installed that would look pretty odd and cost me about $3,500.
Does anyone have any photos of a better design for an outboard bracket?
I am told here that it would cost about $12,000 to replace the A4 with a new Yanmar diesel which is a lot for me as I am just getting to know the boat and she needs a number of other things and I need to get some roller furling to sail her solo.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Kulakula
I have only seen one outboard on a 27 and the owner inistalled about 12 inches of wood to shim it out. He really liked the yamaha. If you search the forum for serendipity you should find his comments.
Sailing single handed with roller furling is much easier. Still, I have sailed my boat single handed for several years now with hank on jibs. It depends on how well you trust your autopilot and the weatherman.
Mike M
SV Wind Horse
#375
Galveston, Tx
Last edited by (2008-03-04 12:08:54)
Mike M
SV Wind Horse
#375
Galveston, Tx
Offline
$12,000 strikes me as high. We put a 2YM15 Yanmar in our boat for about $8000 including new exhaust system, new prop blades and new shaft. If you're willing to do a lot of the work yourself, it could be a bit lower (I did a little bit and the stuff I didn't do seemed straightforward). A diesel would give you more of the power you need in passes.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Offline
Hi
I too have a Mark I. I looked into installing an outboard last year. I have pictures and diagrams for the installation of an outboard and bracket but they are on my home computer. send me a message and I will email them to you once I get home. I am in Campbell River and would be interested in you exchanger off you old motor and maybe even some other spare parts if you were to go with the inboard option.
Drop me a line and I can give you a call
Dave Rollins
Red Pepper
250-202-7831
Dave: Thanks very much for your offer- I would greatly appreciate the sketch and any info you have. I am in Vancouver so if I do pull the A4 and install an outboard, I would be interested in selling the A4 which still runs but gives me little confidence for going through the passes in the Gulf Islands.
There is also a guy in Everett (Craig's List- Seattle) who has what sounds like a good A4 for sale for $900 as of Friday- if you are looking for one quickly.
I look forward to hearing from you about how to do the outboard option.
Bill
Thanks for your suggestions about installing an outboard on my C&C 27. I did have a look for Serendipity but didn't actually find it but did find one other write up on this but without a photo or drawings.
Bill
David: Thanks for the info you provided. I would be a happy sailor if I could get a 2YM 15 Yanmar for the price you were able to. In Vancouver, I am told $7,500 for a new motor in the box then about $5,000 for a yard to modify the engine bed, install a new shaft and prop and clean the old aluminum fuel tank. New exhaust needed too..
I could do some of the work myself as I have basic skills so I will keep looking around.
Thanks, Bill
There is nothing in an engine change that anyone who is reasonably competent with tools cannot do, and while it might cost several thousand of a mechanic's time to do the work, it doesn't need to be done by a mechanic. It can be done by you and a friend.
The Yanmars in that series are virtually a drop-in replacement. You don't touch the glass. The steel angles on top of the f'glass beds need to be changed, but anyone who can hold a hacksaw and a drill can do that. Steel: $30-$40
New prop: $100 to $1000+.
New shaft: $500.
New cutless bearing $95.
Shaft seal $200 (nice but not essential).
Muffler (Vetus): $200.
Hose: $200 (a guess - might be $300).
Clean tank: need brass utility pump (non-sparking), one roll paper towel, 36" wooden dowel: $30 (if you have to buy the pump)
New filter (Racor): $100.
Miscellaneous hose clamps: $40
The big challenge is finding a better deal on the engine, either the one I used or its predecessor, the 2GM.
Good luck.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
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Your breakdown does make it look like it could be a manageable problem. it makes me wonder if the boatyard was charging more than the $70 I will have to think about this a little more as I see your point. With a little help, I could probably figure out how to do much of the work you describe.
Thanks!
Something I forgot in that list - a new tank if you don't have one. The original steel tanks are way past their best-by dates and so are some aluminum ones. Assoc. member Ralph Ainslie pulled his tank and found he could poke his finger through the bottom. Three or four years ago, a 27 owner found that her tank had let go and she had 15 gallons of gas sloshing around in her bilge. If you have an aluminum tank, you should lever it up and inspect the underside for corrosion before you start the engine replacement process, because the easiest time to replace it is when the engine is out.
Replacement plastic tanks are about $100 - $200.
There will be much more on tanks on the site in the next month or so thanks to information from member Scott Schoeler and RCYC head mechanic George Garland, who together have provided a lot of info on the corrosion of steel and aluminum tanks (a problem that biofuels will make much worse).
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Offline
For what its worth, I have a Honda 9.9 long shaft on my Mark V ( which has a different hull etc. from your Mark 1) and it pushed through the Hell Gate on the East River, also a notorious stretch of water, with no problem.
Copasetic
e=3>Growing up in the central part of Minnesota where all sailboats were small and all had outboards, I loved the ease of care & maintenance.es"> </SPAN>I moved and began sailing the Great Lakes; Erie, Michigan & Ontario and stubbornly stuck with an egg beater hanging off the transom for two boats, a Chrysler & a Hunter.es"> </SPAN>Every time the lake got lumpy, the egg beater came out.es"> </SPAN>Outboards gave me fits when I needed them the most.es"> </SPAN>They seemed to push the boat OK against a current but waves made them useless.es"> </SPAN>Moving up to bigger boats, my experience with the Atomic 4 was that it worked great after it was rebuilt and updated and the clapping diesels were wonderful.es"> </SPAN>I vowed I’d never go back to an outboard unless I was back on Lake Darling in a day sailor.es"> </SPAN>With all due respect to those who made comments about their outboard on their 27, I’m going to have to encourage you, if at all possible, to stick with an inboard; rebuild or re-power but keep the iron inside the boat. Scott Schoeler, MKIII, "Scot-Free"
Scott Schoeler, Hull 858, "Scot-Free"
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I'm going to second Scott's opinion. I lived with a very good outboard on the back of my 25 for 19 seasons, but it always had issues in any kind of a chop. As you increase the water-line length of the boat, the potential for lifting out simply increases because the additional length magnifies the leverage inherent in any pitching motion. In the potentially exposed waters and strong currents along the West Coast, I would much rather have an inboard, as in my current 27. I too had some issues with my Atomic 4 when I first purchased the boat. Now that it and I have come to a meeting of minds, there isn't any other motive power that I would rather have. Give it a good overhaul and I'm sure that it will continue to chug along reliably for many years yet.
Marcus
Carriden, Hull #847
A second thought: have you contacted Moyer Marine about a replacement head? They are the ultimate authority on all things Atomic 4.
Marcus
> With a little help, I could probably figure out how to do much of the work you describe.
There's a book called "Spurr's Boatbook / Upgrading the Cruising Sailboat" that contains a chapter on repowering, with photos of Dan Spurr working on his own boat. It's under $15 on Amazon. That would probably put to rest most of your concerns about repowering.
As to the rest, it occurs to me that one of the greatest concerns for amateurs like us is the thought that the new engine "won't fit" in some way. Also, that there might be serious measuring mistakes that would only become apparent when a heavy, unwieldy engine was heaved into place.
Therefore, I think that the sensible way to proceed would be to make a mockup of the new engine out of 2" x 2" wood. The overall dimensions could be roughly accurate, but the placement of a 7/8" dowel to represent the drive shaft and engine mounts would be exact. Then you take the old engine out and use the mockup do all the measuring, shifting around and double-checking that you need to feel comfortable. This could be done by one person, since the weights involved are negligible, so you could take all the time you need, without a concern for someone else's time.
One other item I forgot along with the tank, a Drivesaver coupling (the red item visible here). This $300 item was necessary to move the engine a couple of inches forward, but could have been avoided if the difference in engine lengths had been appreciated before the new shaft was ordered. It's a nice-to-have item that reduces vibration, so I don't mind.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Offline
Hi -
I just sold my 27 with an outboard - in Vancouver. We had a Yamaha 9.9 and because of an accident replaced it with a Merc 9.9. Other than the slightly snobish reactions of other die hard 27 owners...ehem...we had no issues. It opens up a world of space under the cockpit to put in refrigeration and lots of crab traps!
(We LOVE our new furling system - by the way if that helps in your decision! we sail everywhere because its in and out so fast!)
To make reverse easy as pie I just swivelled the rudder right round - no prop walk! Following seas as always were loud with the prop popping out - but the cabin was silent under power all the time. Great for 5am start ups leaving the kids to sleep!
Keep your eyes open for Hermione - she is at Heather Marina?? in Vancouver. I think her new name might be Second Wind.
We are now sailing a C&C 34 - (Hermione 2?? )
cheers best of luck!
Alex
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