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My MkV has a small leak where water accumulates in the
liner between the main cabin and the v-birth.
Usually I get water there when there is a hard downpour. It's not a lot
of water, but I'm concerned about the damage this may be causing.
Is there a reliable way to determine where it's coming from?
John F.
This is a difficult problem. Water accumulating anywhere in a boat can come from almost anywhere else. Some classical approaches are to taste the water to see if it is salt (if the boat is in salt water!), and look at the colour of the water. If it is clear, there probably isn't too much damage yet. If it is brown, that may mean rotting balsa and big trouble. The only reliable rule is that water always flows downward, or, at worst horizontally. On a previous boat (not a C&C) I had water under the V berth and almost had to tear the front half of the boat apart to locate the source. It turned out to be a hairline seam which opened up in the anchor locker, at the drain hole where the hull molding was joined to the deck molding. Once located this was easily fixed with some epoxy. You might check that out. If the boat is stressed by heavy weather or racing, the deck and hull can "work" apart and open up small seams or cracks. Another place could be the baby stay chain plate. On my Mk V, the baby stay chain plate worked the mounting holes on the V berth bulkhead onto ovals, and the plate raised off the deck by about 1/8". To correct that, I removed the chain plate, filled the old holes with epoxy, drilled new holes slightly lower down, and rebedded the chain plate. Look for water stains on the bulkhead. Another place could be the waste holding tank pump out fitting. On my boat, there is some minor moisture penetration into the deck around that fixture. (I've got to fix that real-soon-now!) Other obvious deck possibilities are the foredeck hatch, the mast wiring exits on the deck, the mast step, etc. I'd take a close look at the mast wiring exits. One thing you could try is on a dry day, thouroughly wet limited parts of the deck and see if the leak happens. I wouldn't waste too much time looking at the stantion bases, since they are probably too far outboard to cause a leak and are supposedly mounted in a solid FRP edge 6" wide around the outer rim of the deck. Underwater, instrument transducers can leak. On my boat, the boat's speed and depth transducers were mounted underneath the small fiberglass "bridge" which separates the V berth from the main cabin, and were almost inaccessible. I needed to be a contortionist to reach them, could feel them but not see them. This was not a comforting situation in case of an emergency. I cut a 6" access port and installed a Beckson access plate on the forward facing wall of the "bridge". This can't be seen from the cabin, but lets me get at the transducers more easily. Why carry those wooden plugs if you can't bang them in when needed? This is a bit off topic, but if your leak is there this would help detect it.
We had a lot of leaks in our boat when we first got it, ranging from windows to hoses. This is a trick that helped me locate a maddening leak that regularly put water into the shelves above the settees. Draw a line with water-based marker across any of the suspected water-paths. Examine them carefully after a deck-wetting sail and visit the boat as soon as possible after a heavy downpour. If a line or part of a line has been washed away, you've found a waterpath and if you're really lucky the path may still be wet and will lead you back to its source.
One of our waterpaths had us stymied for a while because it appeared that a tiny amount of water was migrating upward. Obviously there had to be another leak somewhere from which the water flowed downward. Then we realized that in a real blow, when the boat is on its ear, this waterpath _was_ downward and that we had already solved the problem.
As I read your post, I understood it as referring to water between deck and headliner, but Bob England is reading it as being on the sole. We had a problem of water on the sole that turned out to be a minuscule leak in the water system (less than a turn on a hose clamp fixed it). We also had a leak of brownish water into a locker that had me thinking about decomposing balsa. That turned out to be a hose problem, this time with the holding tank. Before you take up Bob's suggestion to taste the water, do yourself a favour and smell the water.
David Weatherston
"Towser", Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
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John
My boat accumulates water in the base of the hanging locker behind the head. Is it the same place on your boat? If so, I can't help because I'm damn'd if I can figure out where it comes from. Kokomo has the same problem.
Jim
Thanks for the tips. It gives me some ideas.
The leak accumulates in front of the head. This part is isolated from the
rest of the boat, so it must be coming from somewhere on deck, I suspect
it's making its way along one of the bulkheads.
I'm suspecting the shrowd chainplates, or maybe one of the tracks.
I hadn't thought of the wiring exits, but it could be from there too.
I had leaks around numerous holes cut for my handrails. The rails connect to the cabin top to create small dams that trap water, then allow it to leak into the boat, but not so fast that it's obvious. With this problem, I was finding water in the locker and the main cabin. The hull to deck joint remains tight on my boat--a '72 C&C 27.
A friend showed me a great way to track down those elusive leaks-- ones that come in here, but show up dripping inside, way over there !!!. For most of this procedure you work on either the port or the starboard side of your boat. Look over the toerail and the whole deck and all the places anything passes through it. Determine, on each side, where the lowest possible point of water entry is. To isolate different heights on the toerail, you can build dams of putty or plasticine to route the running water you'll be using to where you want it ( or don't want it).
Place a hose with running water at that lowest point on one side of the boat , open a beer and wait. If no drip appears inside by the time you've finished that beer, move the hose to the next higher point and open another beer. I'm sure you'll see how this works--- you can try 24 places before having to make a trip uptown.
Seriously, this does work for most leaks. It will not detect those leaks that only open up when the boat is under load ( like on the wind and heeled 25 degrees). Once you've determined that a leak that drips here actually came in way over there, dismantle/caulk/tighten that spot, way over there , then re-apply the hose to prove you've got it stopped before moving to the next higher spot. Procede to the other side of the boat and repeat.
When you get up to the cabintop and find a leak (like around the mast step) you may find it showing up on either side ( or perhaps, even both sides of your boat). I had a leak around the point where the wiring for my instruments exited the deck, directly behind the mast. That dripped into both port and stb. lockers and looked like two leaks but it had just one source.
Clare Jordan, Aragorn
We all know about chasing leaks to some degree-----Let me add a couple of thoughts:
1) It ain't coming from where you think it is!
2) Generally sewage and water run "downhill" (see note 5 below)
3) Electricity can run "uphill" (110 v for certain--12v maybe)
4) A few drops of food coloring sometimes works in confirming 1) above.
5) The exception to 2) above is: Both can defy gravity. Check out your oil lamp!
Dave in sunny Ft MyersDave Tinder
DAWN BREAKER Mk3
Ft Myers
One afterthought on leaks-- There is a British product which I've used with some success in a couple of places. It's called "Capt. Tolley's Creeping Crack Cure". It's a milky fluid that has very low surface tension which allows it to penetrate into fine cracks where it hardens into a transparent, flexible seal. It is no good for a large leak since it will flow right through but I found it seemed to work on the joints between the teak grabrail and the deck.
Clare Jordan
<U>SAIL FOR SALE </U>_
#2 Genoa for 27' Mk.111 by North Sails . Tri-radial cut, Norlam fabric, built 1998-- good shape . Window, tell-tales and draught stripe. Stitching etc. checked ;2001/2002 . #6 Luff tape .
Replacement Genoa is on order for 2004 racing season but there's some cruising years left in this one -$ 550 asking price. phone 613 498-2029 or e-mail <A href="mailto:bosco@ripnet.com">bosco@ripnet.com</A> <img src="emoticons/icon_frown.gif">Brockville)
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This week I was perusing an old issue (March 2004) of a magazine called "Latitudes & Attitudes" and came across a suggestion there regarding leaks. I haven't tried it but it sounds reasonable and similar to the "Creeping Crack Cure" mentioned above. --- to quote them --
"Mix a capful of Acetone with some West epoxy. The thinned solution will "follow" the water. Let it harden and recaulk". --- Sounds like it might work since Acetone is a solvent for West epoxy and would evaporate from the solution leaving the epoxy mixture to harden in the crack/cavity.
Incidentally, I forget who gave me this tip but I've been doing a couple of basement boat projects this winter using West epoxy and did much of the brush and roller clean-ups with vinegar!!! Vinegar doesn't get it all but the little bit of epoxy that's left after a vinegar swish and a good wipe, cleans up with a minimal amount of Acetone-- less smell, less cost and safer too!
Clare Jordan
<U>SAIL FOR SALE </U>_
#2 Genoa for 27' Mk.111 by North Sails . Tri-radial cut, Norlam fabric, built 1998-- good shape . Window, tell-tales and draught stripe. Stitching etc. checked ;2001/2002 . #6 Luff tape .
Replacement Genoa is on order for 2004 racing season but there's some cruising years left in this one -$ 550 asking price. phone 613 498-2029 or e-mail <A href="mailto:bosco@ripnet.com">bosco@ripnet.com</A> <img src="emoticons/icon_frown.gif">Brockville)
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Clare--your appropriate use of vinegar reminds me of "the old days" on the Great Lakes. My then Fisher 30' had a complex fresh water system---but it provided for hot showers and ice in my martini's--also required some fore-thought in the winterizing process. In those days, potable anti-freeze was about $6 bucks a gal.---Same for Popov, Schmirnoff, and a dozen or so potatoe distilate products. Eighty -Six proof was more than enough to handle Chicago winters. The added benefit---with proper Spring timing is obvious.
DaveDave Tinder
DAWN BREAKER Mk3
Ft Myers
I too have a small leak between cabin and v berth on my C&C 27 MKV. I removed the small beige caps(covers) where the mast screws are and it appears to be coming in from one of the bolts which hold the mast step down. Because the Mast step on the deck and is in a shape of a cup it tends to hold a small amount of water which seems to be finding its way down a bolt. I have taken the mast down and plan on rebedding all bolts and the mast step in the spring.
I have also heard that the baby stay can become unsealed do to excess backstay tension or using an adjustqable baby stay. I beleive there are other discussions on this from other boat owners, my baby stay appears perfectly sealed.
Regards
Cameron
I've heard from a reliable source that this is a common problem with Mk V's, and eventually results in rotting of the main bulkhead at the bottom on the port side. Luckily, mine doesn't have this problem, so I have no idea how to diagnose or fix it. But it seems wise to get this fixed before there is serious damage. Mysterious leaks are very frustrating!
There probably is, but common places for this leak are the chainplates and base of the baby stay. My 1985 MkV had the same problem. Fixed it by removing chainplates and baby stay and carefully re-sealing. I also had an additional odd leak at the forestay. Odd because there it leaks down into the anchor well. This is supposed to drain overboard - there is a 3/8 hole straight through the stem for that purpose. Trouble was anchor well was not properly sealed to the hull, so water going through the drain went down below the forward cabin instead of overboard. You might have the same problem. Any water going down there stays and rots the bottom of the cabin bulkhead - common problem - because there is no drain back to the bilge. There probably ought to be, because water always gets under the forecabin floor and just stays. You might find out if someone' figured out how to drain this away - I haven't! Note - if the leaks are around the chainplates, check for rot in the balsa core there and treat it properly. Good luck.
Drangonfly C&C 27 Mk V
Dragonfly C&C 27 Mk V
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I own a Mark V and I swear every one of them links or will leak soon.. Here is what I did.. I went out and bought a $30 canvas tarp that covers the top hatch and goes over the windows. It acts like a tent over this area.. Had it on for 2 years and havent had a drop of water inside.. Best $30 I have spent!
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