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I have just reciently been added to the crew of a 1973 C&C 27. We have been put into a claas B (bigger and faster boats).
My concernindg question is?----How fast is this boat---can she hold her own and then some----I want to win some races with a boat that has a chance. Am i on the right boat?
Paul
Are you on the right boat? From an aesthetic and perhaps even moral and spiritual point of view, you certainly are. These are very good boats and you are definitely joining an elite group of sailors.
From a purely pragmatic "will I win races?" point of view, it depends (I'm assuming you're racing on handicap). If two boats of different size are equally equipped, with equally skilled crews and fair ratings, they should finish in a dead heat; the one who wins will be the one who made the fewest mistakes. In that sense, you're definitely a contender.
The one problem is evening racing. Some years back, two statisticians from StatsCan analyzed about a thousand races and found that for any given division, the larger boats achieved significantly better results, individually and collectively, in the evening than they did in the day. They reasoned that evening is usually marked by a dying wind, so a big boat, by finishing earlier, sails in less soft air than a smaller boat and thus comes in with a better number on corrected time than the smaller boat that has been sailing in zephyrs. This however is a statistical probability, not a certainty; boats from the 27 start in my club's evening races regularly clobber larger boats boat-for-boat from the earlier start.
Having said all that - and forgive me if I've misunderstood your post or the situation you're in - but the fact that you have to ask this question suggests that you're not all that familiar with this aspect of sailing. You might do well to concentrate on developing skills and knowledge, leaving a lust for winning to a somewhat later date.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Offline
The hull speed of a displacement hull can be approximated by the formula 1.34 x the root of the waterline. Hulls speed is just one factor in winning....and there are many. My experience is that the best skippers and crews find ways to win. Good luck, work hard and don't forget the beer when your turn comes around.
Paul,
I am not a racer but everyone around me is. The most common compliment to my 1973 C&C is that she is "gutsy" meaning that she can take me where I want to go in most conditions. She is fast for a 27, and most 30's have to push to beat her. Her main drawback to speed is probably her helmsman (no crew) and his lack of experience in racing. Of course she is not as fast as the "high dollar" boats that are light with large sails, but in a blow, or tough conditions the "high dollar" boats will not give you the comfort and stablity of the C&C. I truly believe the C&C's of this size offer the best comprise in speed and stability anyone would want. I have owned and sailed a San Juan 24, a catalina 27, and now the Sea Robin, a MKII C&C 27, she is by far the best boat of the three.
Paul,
Every boat's a compromise. There are some boats in the 27 foot range that are certainly faster than the C&C. There are also some that are more comfortable ( more amenities-- and somewhat slower?) however, C&C managed to strike the right mix, in my opinion, when they did the 27.
So far as racing is concerned, there are enough C&C 27's around that the ratings derived for them over the years (e.g. PHRF) are "Honest" and with the 27, they seem to apply pretty well over a wide range of conditions. There are some boats that will sail 'above their ratings' in certain conditions and beat you, others may sail 'below their ratings' in the same situation for, just like boat design, handicapping is a compromise too.
In the end though, in a reasonably equipped boat, a good crew, working together can arrive at the start line on the gun and can shave off a second or two at each tack and perhaps 8-10 seconds on a spinnaker set, 5 seconds on each jibe and there you have it!-- A full 45 seconds!!! The difference between 1st and 2nd in many races is measured in seconds, NOT minutes. So Paul, my advice is: be aware you're on a good boat and do what you can to add to the strength of the crew work.
Clare Jordan
Thanks for your reply--------Im just starting out in sailboat racing and i need all the advice i can get.
thanks
Paul
Thanks for the insight---Im new in the racing end of sailboats but I think it will be a challenge as well as fun. Any extra in's and out's for the C&C 27 are greatly appreciated. We have been rated to be put in a larger class and I really want to beat a few of these bigger boats.
Paul
Seems to me you have two questions.
First, ratings, which few replies addressed. What is your rating and is it fair in comparison to other boats in your division? C&C 27s have been around long enough that the ratings are well known. If your boat doesn't have a standard rating, you might ask why. One of the respondants did suggest that in some conditions, a boat will perform to its ratings and in other conditions, they underperform. That is very frequently a question of winds. The specs of a Mark II would suggest they will do better in heavier breezes than the Mark III but on the other hand, the Mark III will do better in lighter breezes. You guys in Ontario may have personal experience with this but while we have quite a few Mark Is, Mark IIs and Mark IIIs out here (Vancouver) but few are racing so I haven't actually seen it.
Racing at the inter-club level here has been moving to the ORC Club rating system, away from PHRF with some of the faster boats so far and it is reaching down as time goes on and may eventually get to the C&C27 level. The ORC system is supposed to work in all wind ranges so it's fair regardless of the wind, and so far, it seems to work. We have some very disatisfied sailors but by and large, most seem to be quite happy. Club level racing is still using PHRF.
Your second question relates to your sailing skills level. You shouldn't be as concerned with winning as you are about learning, especially since your later entries suggest you are fairly new to the sport. You should ask yourself instead, if everybody on the boat is at about the same experience and skill level and is the crew static. If so, you probably can't learn too much, except over a longer term. And does most of the crew have "fire in their belly". If not, you won't win either. Going out for a pleasure cruise every week is OK if that's what you want, but if you want to win or even do well, it won't work. If you are with a crew like that, well maybe it's time to move on. But if the skipper is committed to do well, he/she will make whatever changes are required including crew changes. Watch to see if the boat is on an upward trend or has leveled out and is consistently in the bottom half of the fleet. Bottom line: take what you can from your present experience and if you stop learning or enjoying yourself, move on.
Fred, Lark, C&C27 Mk III
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